The Great Xmas Fish Massacure

[iroc]

So in my 55 gal I had

2 x Clown Loaches
1 x Golden Gourami
1 x Green Severum Cichlid
1 x Blood Parrot Cichlid
1 x Blue Kenyi Cichlid
1 x Ice Blue Zebra Cichlid
2 x Zebra Danios
1 x Common Pleco
1 x Silver Veil Tail Angelfish
1 Marble Koi Angelfish

I know the Africans shouldn't have been in this set up anyway as it is planted tank but things have always just seem to work out. That is until last night.

I left out of here around 4:00pm and returned at 7:00pm, during that time something musta happened.

When i returned home I found the Ice Blue Zebra Cichlid floating at the top of the tank, it was very very very hot in the tank about 95 degrees( this is a stupid heater that just goes from cold to hot with no temps). I imedidly lowered the heater and did a 50 % water change introducing the cooler water very slowly as not to shock all the others. During this time I noticed that the Blue Kenyi Cichlid was missing as well and so was one of the Zebra Danios ( this didn't concern me as much since those were basicly in the tank to finish their lives not by choice)

Now I have been warned by many (including lots of ppl from this board) that the 2 africans were become vicious against the other fish, I never worried much about it as the Sev is by far the biggest fish in the tank, and the Angels are full grown I figured everyone could handle themsleves. But now it looks like it's possible that they became aggressive and were killed by the other fish. Strange part is although I found the body of the Ice Blue the other 2 missing fish bodies are just that missing..................


What do you guys think.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

So in my 55 gal I had

2 x Clown Loaches
1 x Golden Gourami
1 x Green Severum Cichlid
1 x Blood Parrot Cichlid
1 x Blue Kenyi Cichlid
1 x Ice Blue Zebra Cichlid
2 x Zebra Danios
1 x Common Pleco
1 x Silver Veil Tail Angelfish
1 Marble Koi Angelfish

I know the Africans shouldn't have been in this set up anyway as it is planted tank but things have always just seem to work out. That is until last night.

I left out of here around 4:00pm and returned at 7:00pm, during that time something musta happened.

When i returned home I found the Ice Blue Zebra Cichlid floating at the top of the tank, it was very very very hot in the tank about 95 degrees( this is a stupid heater that just goes from cold to hot with no temps). I imedidly lowered the heater and did a 50 % water change introducing the cooler water very slowly as not to shock all the others. During this time I noticed that the Blue Kenyi Cichlid was missing as well and so was one of the Zebra Danios ( this didn't concern me as much since those were basicly in the tank to finish their lives not by choice)

Now I have been warned by many (including lots of ppl from this board) that the 2 africans were become vicious against the other fish, I never worried much about it as the Sev is by far the biggest fish in the tank, and the Angels are full grown I figured everyone could handle themsleves. But now it looks like it's possible that they became aggressive and were killed by the other fish. Strange part is although I found the body of the Ice Blue the other 2 missing fish bodies are just that missing..................


What do you guys think.

Just goes to show that you should research you fish properly before you buy them and don't have fish together which are known to be unsuitable together.
The agression doesn't always start imediately, some fish just need to mature a bit before they start becomming agressive, but it always happens sooner or later. Sometimes a lack of tank space can also bring on agression in fish, as well as other things.
You should get your heating sorted out as well, it will be causing the fish a lot of stress if the temp is fluctuating a lot.

 

[AngelPen]

Our Angelfish lived happily with our neons for about 4 or 5 months, then 15 were eaten within a week! So although fish can seem to get on happily together, one day it will just change! Maybe when the fish mature a bit, which is what we think happened with ours. One killed a guppy last week, so I hope that was a one off, and the others will survive!

As for the missing bodies, they have probably been eaten.

 

[halfbloodprincess]

What is the stocking now?

 

[confusion]

Also, keep in mind that when the temp rises, the fish's metabolism speeds up, meaning they need to eat more. So, when the temp rose, your fish got stressed and hungry, aggression got out of control and you have some very predatory fish.

A lot of times you can have a "questionable" stocking arrangement when you manage it well - water changes, temp, adequate feeding and diet, but once something gets out of whack, it goes to pot in a hurry, as you've found out.

 

[Ranger]

If the two MIA fish were small enough to be eaten, voila. If not, they might have jumped in an attempt to escape being lunch, or dinner in your case.

 

[kniesh]

If you hadn't noticed any signs of stress or aggression amongst the fish before this day then it is way too quick for deaths. It sounds much more like the rising temperature which is the cause. Agreed the aggression would have picked up eventually but it would be spread over a time period of weeks, maybe even months of noticing fish chasing each other or constantly hiding. You wouldn't just check one day and find dead fish.

 

[MHunt]

We're questioning the stocking choices which are undoubtedly questionable, but we seem to be ignoring the apparent trigger for this problem.

GET A NEW HEATER!!!!!!

If the heater went up to 95 degrees without you doing anything different to it, perhaps it's faulty! A better option for a larger tank, is to get two smaller heaters, perhaps half the value you have now. Then is one gets stuck, it can't heat the tank up as much as one big one, and the other one (hopefully) won't come on at the same time. Likewise if one fails, the other one should keep the tank acceptable until you can change the faulty one.

 

[kniesh]

We're questioning the stocking choices which are undoubtedly questionable, but we seem to be ignoring the apparent trigger for this problem.

GET A NEW HEATER!!!!!!

If the heater went up to 95 degrees without you doing anything different to it, perhaps it's faulty! A better option for a larger tank, is to get two smaller heaters, perhaps half the value you have now. Then is one gets stuck, it can't heat the tank up as much as one big one, and the other one (hopefully) won't come on at the same time. Likewise if one fails, the other one should keep the tank acceptable until you can change the faulty one.

Yep, this is the bit I forgot to put in. You should definately get a new heater, especially if it has happened before.

 

[QuotheRaven]

Indeed the heater should be replaced however there are some big stocking issues there...African Cichlids with new worlds isn't good (I have a peacock, kribs, angels and severums in one tank however the peacock was a rescue from a bad petshop..couldn't leave him). Common Pleco will get massive and needs a bigger tank 4 foot by 18 by 18 minimum, they poop alot to...The clown loaches will outgrow the tank as they need to be in bigger groups. the danios shouldn't be in a tank with fully grown cichlids...now you have been a member on this site awhile so you are most likely aware of your stocking issues just filling you in incase your not sure..

 

[confusion]

To be honest, I have yet to find a heater that I'm really happy with. I've bought cheap ones, I've bought expensive ones, and everywhere in between. Almost all of them suffer the same problem to some extent - the indicated temperature does not reflect the temp that it'll make the water, and adjusting the temp will not yield the difference I'm looking for.

Case in point - I have a heater in my 29G tank that is on the LOWEST possible setting, and it keeps the water at 78F. Moving the dial by on degree will raise the temp about 5 degrees. Lowing it will sometimes mean the thing never comes back on and I have to futz with it. Nearly every heater I've owned works similar to that. I've recently bought one for a 2.5G ICU tank that so far seems to be true to the dial.

I suspect I know the cause. The dials are variable resistors. Under great conditions, those things are tempremental and have to be cleaned (read: rapid back and forth movements to maintain the right amount of contact). Those dials are probably subject to some amount of humitiy and/or mineral deposits that mess with the contact.

Has anyone found a brand of heater that doesn't do this?

 

[LisaLQ]

I've used loads of different heaters, and yes there's some variation between dial temp and actual temp, but never up to 95F. That is a broken heater, therefore needs replacing.

I'd say for 55g, the tank was overstocked as it was, possibly still is depending on what exactly went missing and their size. The common and the sev would get too big for the tank in the long run.

Just out of interest, why choose old world fish and new world fish and put them together? It seems a lot of people are doing this. Why not choose one or the other? I know folks like to have their cake and eat it - but it's the fish's needs that should be priority.

 

[iroc]

Ok let me try to answer some or all of these questions:

The stocking issues - When I got the 55 gal it came with the angels and 6 black neons, the week before I got that tank I was giving a 20 gal tank with the sev and the parrot in it ( which we all agree is wayyyyyy to small) thus all of those went into the 55 gal. The common was misslabeled when I bought it, I thought i was getting a BN. When he gets a little bigger he will be brought to a very good LFS which will give me a trade for him. The parrot I think was drawfed but the life in a 20 gal and isn't getting any bigger ( is only about 4" now) the sev will get to big and like the plec will be turned into the LFS. as far as the new worl vs old world that was just a huge mistake. I took my son with me to use a petsmart gift card and the africians were mislabeld as South americian cichlids, I figured they would be ok, when I got home I found out the news but petsmart doersn't take them back and I was in the proess of finding someone who wanted them ( read an lfs which takes trades and wants africians). I have another tank a 20 gal and the black skrits used to be in there, however I had a red flame gourami, and a blue drawf which were being bulled to no end in the 55 gal ( both were resuces) so I put them in the 20 gal and moved the faster moving black skrits into the 55 gal. I understand my stocking choices are not ideal, in fact quite often I wish i could start all over again and make 2 completely different tanks. I have to do this slowly however I have 2 small children who are in love with the fish and I need to break them of their love for certian fish slowly. one of my children is Autisic and the only connection he has ever made to a pet is with the fish, I understand that some might not agree with the potional dangers to the fish as the 1st concern but as much as I love my fish my children come 1st and the fish will have to stay 2nd.

Now as far as the heater, I am going to get another heater. the issue wasn't that it just all of a sudden went up. it is a cheep heater which just has a low to high setting, it has been very cold lately and my house has poor insultion thus the tank was getting to cold. I turned the heater up apperently way to high. I have adjusted it but I still am going to get a better heater as I don't want to have to fuss with it as much. I actual like the idea of 2 heaters and might go that path.

As far as over stocking, I don't know that I agree becuase I take my water stats often and my ammonia has not been above 0 in the 6 months this tank has been running, my nitrite is at 0 and my nitrate is at .05 so that stats seem to be in good order.

 

[SuperColey1]

I have a Fluval 150W in my tank and always seems to be the right temp.

Dial is set to 81 - Temp according to the thermometer and digital is 80.8. never had a problem with it. God knows how old it is. came second hand with the tank.

(There is no actual temp gauge on the heater like some of the newer ones just the setting dial)

I duno if the Fluvals are more expensive or cheaper, never looked at heaters in shops becuase I've never needed to.

 

[halfbloodprincess]

What is the stocking now? So what have died and what is left?