The dna underneath albino

[Guyb93]

I’m going to say it now .I’m getting an Oscar or two So keep an eye out for that tread .
oscars are oscars there’s no sub species as far as I’m aware just different colours yet some patterns are a lot more desirable and cost a lot more
Iv found black oscars , pure black no red or orange just a sliver trim around the tail fin , not too much money either in fairness along with them are some albino oscars from the same batch , looking at these albinos they are pure white again no red or orange markings not even a trim around the fin .
I’m assuming that these albinos are pure black under that pigment loss and breeding them could bring back that colour?
I can’t find any matching oscars to compare prices but for £15 a black and £10 a albino I think is cheap

But what is more desirable full black or full white ?
What determines the quality of an albino ? Is all white less desirable than white with markings I don’t know

 

[Wills]

Looking forward to this! Is this a new set up to replace your current fish or a second tank?

In terms of if there are more than one Oscar species yes there are Astronotus Ocellatus is the common Oscar with the colour variants and commercial breeding or you also get the Bumble Bee Oscar Astronotus Crassipinnis - sometimes called the Grass Oscar too (not sure why Bumble Bee is much more accurate).

Past that I think there are likely to be more Astronotus species out there, Pier Aquatics have had some wild Oscars in recently that have had people chatting. They are really quite dark but with white markings and a thick white seam on all the unpaired fins.

I don't think that any commonly bred variant of Ocellatus is really going to command a high price so its probably down to you which you prefer. I've always liked Lutino Oscars either the Tigers or the ones with solid red sides.

Wills

 

[DoubleDutch]

If you breed albino × albino the outcome will only be albino. It is a recessive gen and both parents miss the dominant "colorgen".

Think with the black ones it is likewise.
Melanism is the opposite to albino.

If you breed albino × melanism I expect them to get back to the natural color.

 

[GaryE]

Recently, there's been a surge of interest in wild Oscars, to get away from all the frankenfish, and I've seen some astonishing variety in the ones coming from varied regions. New species? Not yet. Sub-species tend not to be a thing anymore. I expect we'll see a few new Oscar species as the DNA is analyzed, but that's just a guess. It could be variability within one species.

I got some albino Pelvicachromis years ago, and bred them because I wanted to see what the brood would give. I had some fish with normal colouration to look at and grow out. They were sold as albino subocellatus and were clearly pulcher when they grew. I was new in the Cichlid hobby and didn't pay a lot of attention to the red eyes versus just a lack of pigment. Why am I telling you this?

You can have no idea of what underlies. The albino version of the Oscar is an old mutation that was set many years ago and is probably very stable.

What determines the price is the price they can get. Albino Oscare were once the pricey, big thing, and now they are very common fish. At least they are here. But in another region, they could be expensive.

 

[DoubleDutch]

Recently, there's been a surge of interest in wild Oscars, to get away from all the frankenfish, and I've seen some astonishing variety in the ones coming from varied regions. New species? Not yet. Sub-species tend not to be a thing anymore. I expect we'll see a few new Oscar species as the DNA is analyzed, but that's just a guess. It could be variability within one species.

I got some albino Pelvicachromis years ago, and bred them because I wanted to see what the brood would give. I had some fish with normal colouration to look at and grow out. They were sold as albino subocellatus and were clearly pulcher when they grew. I was new in the Cichlid hobby and didn't pay a lot of attention to the red eyes versus just a lack of pigment. Why am I telling you this?

You can have no idea of what underlies. The albino version of the Oscar is an old mutation that was set many years ago and is probably very stable.

What determines the price is the price they can get. Albino Oscare were once the pricey, big thing, and now they are very common fish. At least they are here. But in another region, they could be expensive.

What do you mean with very stable Gary ?

Allmost all albino fish are linebred species from the first wildcaught albinos caught.

 

[GaryE]

By stable, I mean true albinos that if crossed with each other produce mainly albino fry. I'm not sure my Pelvicachromis were true albinos, and back then, I didn't even consider doing proper research. I don't recall their eyes, just their colouration. I was young once...

 

[DoubleDutch]

If the albinogen is on the same locus (BN's have two) all fry of albino parents will be albino.

 

[emeraldking]

If you breed albino × albino the outcome will only be albino. It is a recessive gen and both parents miss the dominant "colorgen".

Think with the black ones it is likewise.
Melanism is the opposite to albino.

If you breed albino × melanism I expect them to get back to the natural color.

I agree with DoubleDutch. The only exception is that when you do have a phenotypically wild color that does carry the albino gene. In that case, an albino x wild color with albino gene, could result in albino offspring next to wild color.
Albino x wild color does result phenotypically in F1 generation that will be phenotypically wild color but the albino gene can still be passed on on those fry but recessively.

 

[Guyb93]

I’m going to say it now .I’m getting an Oscar or two So keep an eye out for that tread .
oscars are oscars there’s no sub species as far as I’m aware just different colours yet some patterns are a lot more desirable and cost a lot more
Iv found black oscars , pure black no red or orange just a sliver trim around the tail fin , not too much money either in fairness along with them are some albino oscars from the same batch , looking at these albinos they are pure white again no red or orange markings not even a trim around the fin .
I’m assuming that these albinos are pure black under that pigment loss and breeding them could bring back that colour?
I can’t find any matching oscars to compare prices but for £15 a black and £10 a albino I think is cheap

But what is more desirable full black or full white ?
What determines the quality of an albino ? Is all white less desirable than white with markings I don’t know

I’m going to use my shallow 2.5ft turtle tank for a eba pair and the emperor tetras , still feel a 70l 2.5ft is a bit small for a eba pair and I know they could go with the oscars it’s just I do love my eba and don’t want them to get stressed out so I’m going to use the turtle tank I never used for the turtle lol
I plan to keep the Colombian tetra with the oscars... for a short while Or rehome them still toying with the idea atm about the Colombians ,.
With the value of the fish not really being worth anything I think I might buy a lemon and a red Oscar . I also like the red body’s and black faces .
The plan is for them to go into the 125g with the two pleco and the turtle . I didn’t know that there were two species of Oscar , is there any difference or just colours do one grow smaller than the other is one less predatory than the other

 

[Wills]

I’m going to use my shallow 2.5ft turtle tank for a eba pair and the emperor tetras , still feel a 70l 2.5ft is a bit small for a eba pair and I know they could go with the oscars it’s just I do love my eba and don’t want them to get stressed out so I’m going to use the turtle tank I never used for the turtle lol
I plan to keep the Colombian tetra with the oscars... for a short while Or rehome them still toying with the idea atm about the Colombians ,.
With the value of the fish not really being worth anything I think I might buy a lemon and a red Oscar . I also like the red body’s and black faces .
The plan is for them to go into the 125g with the two pleco and the turtle . I didn’t know that there were two species of Oscar , is there any difference or just colours do one grow smaller than the other is one less predatory than the other

Yeah 70 litres is a bit small for EBAs, 2.5 foot isnt really great either - any options to upgrade this in the future? Even if you could get a Juwel 125 or a Roma 125 that would be a better option, can usually get one on Facebook as a set up for £120-£150?

In terms of the two species I dont think the Crassipinnis is any different behaviour wise but I think they are meant to stay a bit smaller.

Wills

 

[Guyb93]

Yeah 70 litres is a bit small for EBAs, 2.5 foot isnt really great either - any options to upgrade this in the future? Even if you could get a Juwel 125 or a Roma 125 that would be a better option, can usually get one on Facebook as a set up for £120-£150?

In terms of the two species I dont think the Crassipinnis is any different behaviour wise but I think they are meant to stay a bit smaller.

Wills

I’d probably upgrade the 125g to a pond style build then just return the eba back to the 125g . I have to just do things sometimes or else the courts of wife will drag things out and make it last 6 months lol

 

[Wills]

I’d probably upgrade the 125g to a pond style build then just return the eba back to the 125g . I have to just do things sometimes or else the courts of wife will drag things out and make it last 6 months lol

Understood

Have you thought about selling the turtle tank and seeing if you can get the same money for a slightly bigger set up?

Wills

 

[Guyb93]

Understood

Have you thought about selling the turtle tank and seeing if you can get the same money for a slightly bigger set up?

Wills

Good shout , I didn’t even think about that ! Il have a mooch about see if it’s worth selling

 

[Wills]

Good shout , I didn’t even think about that ! Il have a mooch about see if it’s worth selling

Remember it could be about timing - eg if you sold your smaller tank for £150 and it takes a month you might find someone who needs to get rid of a bigger tank that weekend you'll get it for the same price.

There is a 300 litre in the next village to me for £300 that needs to go this week but its the marine version of the freshwater tank I want.... damn my fear of sumps!!!

 

[Guyb93]

Remember it could be about timing - eg if you sold your smaller tank for £150 and it takes a month you might find someone who needs to get rid of a bigger tank that weekend you'll get it for the same price.

There is a 300 litre in the next village to me for £300 that needs to go this week but its the marine version of the freshwater tank I want.... damn my fear of sumps!!!

Yeah sumps scare me I feel like I’m just going to overflow water ever where or my sump will crack or something daft