The Culling!

[nakomis90]

Ok i was asked earlier how do breeders choose which too cull, well i thought as so many of you are breeding i will give you a low down on how and who too cull!

Not all breeders cull but i know those who use these stratagies!

A.The big fish feeding frenzy
This is exactly as its said, feed the mutated and unwanted fry to bigger fish!

B.Cloveoil
I am not sure on what mesurements on this....
But this is usually done by adding cloveoil too a jar of tank water and placing the fish into it... the fish slowly go to sleep... when then there is debate on whether or not the fish dies.... others like to cut the fishes head off once asleep as precautions...

Why?

Most breeders are breeding a particular "Line" of betta so there is alot of breeding fry back too there parents causing Mutated bettas....
the main mutations are "Spoon heads" and "S shaped" spines...

Spoon head is a drastic arch round the head

Red= spoon head
Blue= What should be...

 

[5teady_2012]

Thanks for adding this, i always wondered what cull meant

 

[hollyp0p]

bettas are meant to have the large round head???

I like spoon features!

 

[ibbledibble]

bettas are meant to have the large round head???

I like spoon features!

the drawing is a bit of an exaggeration

These 2 have spoon heads

This is what the head should ideally look like

 

[modaz]

as a reply to this thread and the other thread about how i cull my fry, i dont personally cull them, if i get a massive hatch rate, i will leave the male in with them a little longer, this reduces the amount down and the brightest fry who have the sense to hide survive, i would never cull a fry because it was the wrong colour, so once they are past the 1 month age of risks all my fry will grow into adult hood regardless. its just by pure luck that i ended up with the 2 yellow cambo fry, who knows the others that got eaten may well have been yellows as well.

 

[the biffster]

i dont see the point in culling keep the best and lfs gets the rest

 

[hollyp0p]

as a reply to this thread and the other thread about how i cull my fry, i dont personally cull them, if i get a massive hatch rate, i will leave the male in with them a little longer, this reduces the amount down and the brightest fry who have the sense to hide survive, i would never cull a fry because it was the wrong colour, so once they are past the 1 month age of risks all my fry will grow into adult hood regardless. its just by pure luck that i ended up with the 2 yellow cambo fry, who knows the others that got eaten may well have been yellows as well.

ahhhh ok I was taking the over exaggeration as standard...lol....Odin doesn't have a spoon face....they do look a little odd, but it's still a bit mean......I don't think there's anything wrong modaz with survival of the fittest....my danios used to lay eggs which hatched in my tank....there was no room really for more fish but I thought if any survive my betta eating them, then fair enough and I'd rehome them.....but none every did

 

[wuvmybetta]

I've personally never agreed with culling because it's entirely too hard for the untrained eye to tell what a fish is going to turn out like as an adult until it's well over a couple months old. If you're heading for the show circuit, the small things like what has been called a 'spoon head' here are overlooked when it comes to judging. If anything it is just a few points off the overall final score of the fish. A fish with perfect finnage and perfect coloration for it's class has just as much of a chance at winning with or without a slight dip in it's head.

With that said,personally, I think one needs to take responsibility for their actions as far as homing the fish they bring into the world. Culling is an easy way out. That's just my opinion.


Modaz, I agree with what you're saying regarding survival of the fittest. Personally I've always wondered if the father knows what he is dealing with better than the breeder. It seems to me that he would naturally take out the strongest (potential alpha's) for his own benefit, especially in a closed environment. I've personally always been too nervous and untrusting to leave them any longer than their nurturing stage!

I'm hoping this thread stays civil, otherwise it will be locked.

 

[blue_betta]

i only cull a fish if its grosely disfigured. from my last surviving spawn i have one female with a bent spine and deformed tail, but she gets along fine. she eats and is healthy and seldom shows stress bars. i did have to cull one male who had a severe back deformity that was geting worse as he got older, it was causing him problems swimming and feeding froperly.

 

[modaz]

Personally I've always wondered if the father knows what he is dealing with better than the breeder. It seems to me that he would naturally take out the strongest (potential alpha's) for his own benefit, especially in a closed environment. I've personally always been too nervous and untrusting to leave them any longer than their nurturing stage!

what a statement you hear so many people commenting on the male eating the deformed but as you say who knows what the male is thinking and his reason for cutting down numbers, i believe that what will be will be, ive had spawns that are single numbers and been happy with the results, i find it hard culling a fish that i know wont recover from an illness, i couldnt cull a perfectly healthy fish b/c it wasnt considered good enough

 

[blue_betta]

Personally I've always wondered if the father knows what he is dealing with better than the breeder. It seems to me that he would naturally take out the strongest (potential alpha's) for his own benefit, especially in a closed environment. I've personally always been too nervous and untrusting to leave them any longer than their nurturing stage!

this would send their evolution into reverse. if that was the males objective, he would not have the maternal insticts that nature gave him.

 

[modaz]

i see what your saying but after the fry are free swimming his maternal instinct goes, well 99% of them looses it, so its every betta for themselves regardless of adult or fry, it would be interesting to see if the male was left in there for a much longer time would the resulting survivors be female only or a high % of?? not that im recommending anyone to do this though, but it would still be an interesting result to see.

 

[wuvmybetta]

Personally I've always wondered if the father knows what he is dealing with better than the breeder. It seems to me that he would naturally take out the strongest (potential alpha's) for his own benefit, especially in a closed environment. I've personally always been too nervous and untrusting to leave them any longer than their nurturing stage!

this would send their evolution into reverse. if that was the males objective, he would not have the maternal insticts that nature gave him.

I see what you're saying but only up to a point. The betta is designed to be alpha in all situations. I believe they have a nature to nurture their young, but they also have a nature to take out others of their sex, especially those that might step up to the plate. Male cats have been known for killing their sons, as have male lions. I suppose I just see it like that. Like I said, it's only my opinion.

I've kept sibling males together entirely longer than you're 'supposed' to. Many times all was well as long as I left the alpha male in the tank. If I removed the alpha male there would be quarreling and ripped finnage over who would be next in line. And at other times I've found alpha males ripped to shreds and dead and a new alpha strutting around taking his place. They're tricky fish.

 

[blue_betta]

I see what you're saying but only up to a point. The betta is designed to be alpha in all situations. I believe they have a nature to nurture their young, but they also have a nature to take out others of their sex, especially those that might step up to the plate. Male cats have been known for killing their sons, as have male lions. I suppose I just see it like that. Like I said, it's only my opinion.

I've kept sibling males together entirely longer than you're 'supposed' to. Many times all was well as long as I left the alpha male in the tank. If I removed the alpha male there would be quarreling and ripped finnage over who would be next in line. And at other times I've found alpha males ripped to shreds and dead and a new alpha strutting around taking his place. They're tricky fish.

its like that with all species of cat, when a male moves into a territory, displacing the previous male, first thing he does is find all the suckling cubs and kill them, he cant waste time protecting cubs that are not his. the female will come into heat within a few days of her cubs being killed. he will also drive off or kill any weaned male cubs, and has an uneasy tollerance of female cubs that are not his but are weaned and hot inhibiting their mother coming into heat. that why cats kill their own species young. males that kill thier own young are usualy suffering behavioural problems as a result of inbreeding, something that females suffer from at times too.

with regards to the betta, the best person to ask would i guess be "cracker"(where is he these days?). i seem to remember a thread he had with a male that was in with his fry for 16 days without any problems

 

[Amunet]

i only cull a fish if its grosely disfigured. from my last surviving spawn i have one female with a bent spine and deformed tail, but she gets along fine. she eats and is healthy and seldom shows stress bars. i did have to cull one male who had a severe back deformity that was geting worse as he got older, it was causing him problems swimming and feeding froperly.

Yeah.. I think if I ever got into breeding bettas, I wouldn't be able to cull unless the fish was extremely disfigured and I saw that it was having trouble. Even then I'd feel aweful about doing it. That's just me though. I can understand why people would do it.