Tech Corner

[jaylach]

Actually I have an interesting cable that came with my second best video card. It is a patch cable to do DVI digital output to HDMI. Now we all know that DVI does not carry audio but AMD used connections on the cable that were not being used to carry audio to the HDMI side. It works quite well.

 

[seangee]

Guess you're looking forward to seeing it all come together.

My next adventure is going even further into the budget realms. My router setup is working just fine but I had to do so many workarounds to do what I wanted.
First I had to double nat via the eero as mentioned before.
Next I wanted to set up a split tunnel VPN for a subnet. Well the Asus couldn't do that. VPN set up was a piece of cake but static routes can only point to an IP address, not a tunnel. And VPN config only allows you to assign devices - so its all or nothing for a given device! So I set up the VPN client on my Synology NAS, used the router to create a static route for the subnet to the NAS and then use the NAS to reroute via the VPN, easy and performant cos the NAS has 2 wired NICs and runs Linux inside so it was probably under 5 minutes using SSH.
Then I figured I may as well get use out of the NordVPN subscription I'm paying for and set that up, using device assignments. Well it worked great but also assigned other devices (like the NAS) and I couldn't unassign them. While I do use it as a low(ish) volume home NAS its main purpose in life is to receive backups over the internet, it doesn't actually need to connect out to anything. But NordVPN broke this - so I had to turn it off (I also cancelled auto renew ).
I had decided to live with what I had because it does work, and most high end consumer devices are ridiculously expensive and you're paying for gaming perfomance, flashing LEDs and an easy setup via a phone app (none of which I need), and still can't perform basic routing (which I do need). The other alternative is a pro router - but they don't come cheap, or build my own.

Then I spotted these on special https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cudy-WR3000-MU-MIMO-WireGuard-OpenVPN/dp/B0BRK3CYY3
I can live with that as a zero risk (I have a working system) and no regrets option. So I ordered a couple. Not sure that I will need to install OpenWRT - but I have the option, and it might be fun to get my hands dirty. I know its only dual band and limited by the processor but I reckon performance will be at least as good as my early AX setup which cost me ten times as much - and is good enough for my performance needs.

 

[anewbie]

Well, I'll wait a bit longer to do my new build but figure I'm pretty well set as to money with $2200.00 USD in what I call my slush fund. Come September the slush fund will be $24-$2500.00. I would think it more than enough for the build as I won't need any drives although I MAY pick up a 1 TB M.2 gen 5 for system. Video card is more than covered already. As the still not bad video card currently in the second system will be replaced with an old small card. The card currently in the second system will go in the current main system with the AMD Radeon RX 6700 XT currently in the main will be used for the new build.

I was going to scrap my current second desktop to save on a case and power supply but may keep it intact as a backup. I will pull the data and media drives from the second desktop to use on the new build but will leave the Windows 10 system spin drive.

All I really need is a case, power supply, motherboard, CPU and cooler, and RAM. On RAM I'll at least 32 GB but MAY go 64 GB. The motherboard of choice at the moment has 3 gen 4 NVME slots and a gen 5. I also have 3 1 TB gen 4 drives along with 2 gen 3 500 GB drives. The gen 3 drives will replace the 1 TB drives currently in my main for system and clone with the gen 4 drives going for the new build.

Initially I'll buy Windows 11 Home and upgrade to pro if I later find a need. Actually I have a script that would get me 11 Enterprise for free by forcing an activation but I won't do so as I like my systems to be legit. I DID test the script before installing Linux Mint on an old Asus laptop and it worked and Activation showed as active for Enterprise.

Going from the current RAM going from DDR4 to DDR5 and PCIe going from gen 2 and 3 to gen 4 and 5 I would expect that I will see a drastic performance jump. Shoot, the video card that will go in the new build is gen 4 and has been in a gen 3 slot so just that change should make the video performance much better.

'cept at the very high end there is really lttle value in ddr5 over 4 and in some case i believe 4 is faster - it is a trade off between latency and bw - like wise for most devices pcie 2 is plenty fast. A lot of it become marketing though the newer usb standards do show usable improvements esp with attacked disks and such that actually push the boundaries of older standards.

 

[jaylach]

'cept at the very high end there is really lttle value in ddr5 over 4 and in some case i believe 4 is faster - it is a trade off between latency and bw - like wise for most devices pcie 2 is plenty fast. A lot of it become marketing though the newer usb standards do show usable improvements esp with attacked disks and such that actually push the boundaries of older standards.

But, if the mobo takes DDR5, why not use? I will need to buy RAM anyway...

 

[anewbie]

But, if the mobo takes DDR5, why not use? I will need to buy RAM anyway...

cost? In truth i would have kept using ddr3 if the mb supported it though ddr4 prices have dropped a lot - i haven't followed ddr5 pricing as it has been a few years since i required a new mb though i will need one soon to replace my old sandy bridge system.

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Unless i need the performance (of course then i would be buying an i9 or better); i see little reason to spend a lot on nothing.

 

[jaylach]

cost? In truth i would have kept using ddr3 if the mb supported it though ddr4 prices have dropped a lot - i haven't followed ddr5 pricing as it has been a few years since i required a new mb though i will need one soon to replace my old sandy bridge system.

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Unless i need the performance (of course then i would be buying an i9 or better); i see little reason to spend a lot on nothing.

I see your point but I have a bit of a different way of looking at it. I always overbuild for longevity of being 'current. That is largely why I have a second desktop that is around 12 years old and still runs Win 10 without issue. My main is about 8 years old and would dtill be considered current.

Sure I spent more than I needed but the longevity makes up for that by my needing to do less builds.

I also tend to build in stages. Take the M.2 NVME drives and video card in my main. In both cases they are PCIe gen 4 but the system only is gen 3 on the faster slots. Yes, it seems like a waste of money but is it really? When I do the new build I already have the gen 4 components to use in the build.

As to going with DDR5 instead of DDR4 there are some advantages to DDR5 that many don't realize such as taking less power to work. Also DDR5 is MUCH faster. While seldom reached DDR4 in dual channel mode can do sequential reads of around 3200 MT/s while DDR5 has the potential of 6400 MT/s.

It just seems to me to be cheaper in the long run to over build for longevity.

 

[anewbie]

I see your point but I have a bit of a different way of looking at it. I always overbuild for longevity of being 'current. That is largely why I have a second desktop that is around 12 years old and still runs Win 10 without issue. My main is about 8 years old and would dtill be considered current.

Sure I spent more than I needed but the longevity makes up for that by my needing to do less builds.

I also tend to build in stages. Take the M.2 NVME drives and video card in my main. In both cases they are PCIe gen 4 but the system only is gen 3 on the faster slots. Yes, it seems like a waste of money but is it really? When I do the new build I already have the gen 4 components to use in the build.

As to going with DDR5 instead of DDR4 there are some advantages to DDR5 that many don't realize such as taking less power to work. Also DDR5 is MUCH faster. While seldom reached DDR4 in dual channel mode can do sequential reads of around 3200 MT/s while DDR5 has the potential of 6400 MT/s.

It just seems to me to be cheaper in the long run to over build for longevity.

I have found that approach doesn't work for many reasons ; first incompatibility of hardware over the years and incompatibiility of the software (ala windows 11); i do upgrade the gpu on my game system until there is a reason to upgrade more - typically my main system (linux/unix) 15 to 20 years between upgrade - i use it for web browsing streaming and whatever - my current system is a sandybridge i5; my game system gets upgraded as needed - the last time was about 3 years ago and the mb should support windows 11 but i haven't found the time or magic to try the upgrade as the original was windows 7 so it has mbr instead of gpt. I might do it next couple of weeks or i might not.

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I would say the game system gets upgraded about once every 8 years with 1 gpu upgrade inbetween but it depends on various factors - the last rebuild occurred when the mb failed (for example) and the cpu i had wouldn't fit current available mb (my comment on hardware incompatibility). Anyway there is no right answer here but in the end i find memory doesn't matter that much ddr3 to ddr5 in terms of computer usage one isn't going to notice the different so being 'faster' is hogwash - disks on the other hand is a different story esp when going from hd to sata ssd to pcie ssd but after pcie ssd you aren't going to notice much of a difference. If you are gaming at 4k the high end gpu and an appropriate bus if everythiing anything below 4k and the bus won't matter that much and the gpu can be a step down. Most hd tv are 4k most monitors are 1440p or less though some people do buy 4k monitors but don't realize their eyes aren't good enough to see 4k on a 'monitor' size screen though i suppose there are a few with high resolution ultra wide monitors that require the higher end gpu.


That's my 2ct - the numbers quoted with regards to 'potential' is hogwash marketing There are a huge number of factors that go beyond this thread that explain the gap between potential and actual.

Having said this your approach is not uncommon it just isn't for me.

 

[jaylach]

I don't know if the 'potential' sequential read rates are all that much hogwash. Doing benchmarks on my DDR4 RAM I get reports of just under 3200 which is really close to the buss' potential.

 

[anewbie]

I don't know if the 'potential' sequential read rates are all that much hogwash. Doing benchmarks on my DDR4 RAM I get reports of just under 3200 which is really close to the buss' potential.

When i say hogwash i mean does the program you run actually benefit from the 'improvement'. Benchmarks dont' count they are designed to exercise the ram in the most optimal fashion.

 

[jaylach]

When i say hogwash i mean does the program you run actually benefit from the 'improvement'. Benchmarks dont' count they are designed to exercise the ram in the most optimal fashion.

Actually, yes, I do video editing and conversions... Nothing major but, with an advanced video card and a CPU that will use the GPU to speed up the process, my conversion times are reduced by at least 30%

 

[anewbie]

Actually, yes, I do video editing and conversions... Nothing major but, with an advanced video card and a CPU that will use the GPU to speed up the process, my conversion times are reduced by at least 30%

You said cpu and gpu gave you 30% improvement that i believe but how much did the ram help ?

 

[jaylach]

Don't really know as to the RAM in actual situations. However I DO know that the faster RAM will help with writes to the destination drive. The faster the RAM the faster the video conversions as it is mostly done on the RAM side than the drive side. It is only when the ram has been used that it writes to the disk. Faster RAM, faster process.

 

[jaylach]

Just did a quick look while doing too many system updates and found that I MAY have issues finding a case for my upcoming build. I MUST have optical drive bays and they are getting rare. I'm sure that I'll find one on a more intensive search but, at the worst, I'll just break down my current second system and use that case. Since I have a USB DVD burner I could get away with no optical bay but I absolutely MUST have my Blu-ray burner as a lot of my installs are on that media.

In the worst case I'd just run SATA power and data cables outside of the case, which I already do, and just plug in the Blu-ray when needed.

 

[MaloK]

Memory speed is the thing that will make your CPU shine the most... No wonder why graphic professional prefers to work with Mac "M" they have memory bandwidth up to 546 GB/s the standard RAM on PCIe is around 128 and still need to use copy operation to work. "M" Series computers have everything on die and there's no "bus" between components. all engines works on the same memory.

The video encoding performance comparison is not even funny... The latest versions are ridiculously fast.

@jaylach You wont be deceived. Skipping a couple generations is always well received. Loll.

I really was still thinking my laptop was good before a jump from gen 4 to 14... I can tell you, that it's very different.

I waited way too long on this one. I have still an old i7-3770 with 16 gig ram and since I removed the SATA drive and replaced it with a m.2 nvme on a PCIe 4x card... It was not bad, but now it flies.

The little investment payed off and I recovered a nice Samsung 870evo to replace the spinning rust in my little Linux Mint box.

 

[seangee]

My next adventure is going even further into the budget realms. My router setup is working just fine but I had to do so many workarounds to do what I wanted.
First I had to double nat via the eero as mentioned before.
Next I wanted to set up a split tunnel VPN for a subnet. Well the Asus couldn't do that. VPN set up was a piece of cake but static routes can only point to an IP address, not a tunnel. And VPN config only allows you to assign devices - so its all or nothing for a given device! So I set up the VPN client on my Synology NAS, used the router to create a static route for the subnet to the NAS and then use the NAS to reroute via the VPN, easy and performant cos the NAS has 2 wired NICs and runs Linux inside so it was probably under 5 minutes using SSH.
Then I figured I may as well get use out of the NordVPN subscription I'm paying for and set that up, using device assignments. Well it worked great but also assigned other devices (like the NAS) and I couldn't unassign them. While I do use it as a low(ish) volume home NAS its main purpose in life is to receive backups over the internet, it doesn't actually need to connect out to anything. But NordVPN broke this - so I had to turn it off (I also cancelled auto renew ).
I had decided to live with what I had because it does work, and most high end consumer devices are ridiculously expensive and you're paying for gaming perfomance, flashing LEDs and an easy setup via a phone app (none of which I need), and still can't perform basic routing (which I do need). The other alternative is a pro router - but they don't come cheap, or build my own.

Then I spotted these on special https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cudy-WR3000-MU-MIMO-WireGuard-OpenVPN/dp/B0BRK3CYY3
I can live with that as a zero risk (I have a working system) and no regrets option. So I ordered a couple. Not sure that I will need to install OpenWRT - but I have the option, and it might be fun to get my hands dirty. I know its only dual band and limited by the processor but I reckon performance will be at least as good as my early AX setup which cost me ten times as much - and is good enough for my performance needs.

Well it all works and was relatively painless. I did use OpenWRT. Only niggle was I could not maintain a stable 3 way mesh. 2 Way was rock solid, so the easy (and good enough) option was to stick an Asus upstairs where I needed ethernet ports. 5G signal in the office was great but marginal in the bedrooms, so I connected in repeater mode. The tri-band radio on it the means no noticeable bandwidth reduction upstairs.