Tap water has ammonia!

littlest

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I got a betta 3 weeks agao. 30L tank.no tankmates

All of a sudden this week it's looking pretty unhappy. Listless, colour isn' great and yesterday developed a white patch of fuzz (I've ordered anti fungal med). This morning his scales are looking a little raised. So it's not looking good.

I tested the water when he started looking pesky and ammonia was 0.25. So I've been doing water changes to get it down but it wouldn' shift. I did 50% last night and it was 0.25 this morning so did a 75% change. Still 0.25.

So I tested my tap water - 0.25 ammonia!!

What do I do now???

Only treatment in tank is Prime.

I'e had fish at this house before and never noticed this problem. I don' know if the crazy amounts of snow we had recently could have affected the water supply?
 
To add - I did not cycle the tank. I know. I was stupid. My kids were all excited and I thought I could get away with a betta by just doing frequent water changes but wasn't counting on ammonia tap water.

And I don't know anyone with mature media.
 
If your water supply is treated with chloramine it would give a reading for ammonia. It won't dissolve out like free chlorine so you have to use something like Prime to get rid of it. Prime itself can also give a (false) positive reading. IIRC this lasts for about 2 days after adding the Prime, so if you are doing daily changes you will keep seeing positive ammonia tests.

May be worth asking at your LFS if they have any cycled media. Pick up some fast growing floating plants while you are there - something like frogbit should be readily available.
 
I'd definitely ask a LFS for some mature media if possible as Seangee has suggested. But if they wont help other options could be;
  • Search Facebook for some fish groups in your area - any of these people may be able to help with mature media
  • Try a post on http://www.aquarist-classifieds.co.uk/ - It'll be a bit slower than Facebook but you'll likely get a reply to your ad by someone with mature media

If it were me I probably wouldn't be looking at any medication to try to fix this, I'd expect the Betta's only real hope is clean (0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrite, low Nitrate) water.

Good luck.
 
You should absolutely never get used filter media from a fish store, or anyone else for that matter. You could easily introduce various pathogens to your tank, causing disease. It is just as important as quarantining new fish, and the risk is even more/worse with media because of what could be in it. If you want some "seeding" use a bacterial additive.

To the issue of ammonia in the tap water...a level at 0.25 is manageable. Use a conditioner that detoxifies ammonia for water changes (Prime does this, there are a very few others too). Prime works by changing ammonia into harmless ammonium, but it is temporary. After 24-36 hours, the ammonium changes back into ammonia. However, by then the minimal ammonia/ammonium will (ort should) have been dealt with by the bacteria and/or live plants if any are present. I would strongly advise plants, even just some floaters, as a good safety measure; plants take up ammonia rapidly, faster than the bacteria.
 
I agree with @Byron. Only use media from a known healthy tank. Getting media from a pet store (or even a well meaning friend) is a bit like Russian roulette. On occasion, I have "instant" cycled tanks with media from my own main tank that has been established for years with no signs of problems.
As mentioned, you might better obtain a bacteria in a bottle product.
Considering that you likely have chloramine in your tap water, Until fully cycled, I think I'd back off on daily water changes but dose with Prime every other day. At the one week mark I'd do a 75% water change being sure to dose Prime (just before the refill) for the entire tank volume. Also as @Byron pointed out, floating plants could really help here as they would quickly process the ammonia/ammonium.
 
Thanks for the advice. I've never had this issue before so I don' know if they changed the treatment.
To be honest I don' this fish is going to last the night. He' really deteriorated quickly today.
I double checked and tap water ammonia is 0.5 and tank was 0.25 (before water change). So it's bringing it down a little but not enough. There are a few plants in there too.

So, assuming this fish isn' going to make it. For any future tanks it should definitely be cycled, I treat tap water with Prime, have plants - and that should be ok?
Is there an advantage of having a bucket of tap water treated with prime a day or 2 before water changes? (as it's a very small tank)

My little girl (2.5yo) keeps asking where Tiddler is. I told her he' sleeping because he's poorly. She really loves him.
 
Thanks for the advice. I've never had this issue before so I don' know if they changed the treatment.

Assuming you are referring to the water treatment by your municipality...check their website, they should indicate how the water is treated. Or call and ask. It is important to know if they use chlorine alone, or chlorine and chloramine. How we as aquarists condition the tap water depends upon what is in it.

To be honest I don' this fish is going to last the night. He' really deteriorated quickly today.
I double checked and tap water ammonia is 0.5 and tank was 0.25 (before water change). So it's bringing it down a little but not enough. There are a few plants in there too.

If ammonia (or nitrite) was the initial issue, these are toxins that normally affect fish internally and from which the fish cannot "recover," meaning that even if it lives through either of these, the internal damage if done is permanent. The fish is weakened from then on, more susceptible to other problems, etc. There is no treatment for this. Secondary issues like fungus can be treated, but treatments also add further stress to fish, and unless it is a certainty that the issue is "x" or whatever, it is usually best not to add substances that may not work, but significant and more frequent water changes are better. However, one has to deal with substances in the source water, obviously. Whitish patches is often connected to ammonia so I would suggest this was the issue.

Second, when using Prime it detoxifies ammonia by changing it to harmless ammonium, but tests will show ammonium as "ammonia," so it may appear to still be present even though ass ammonium. But the change is temporary as I said previously, and after 24-36 hours changes back into ammonia if it is still present.

What are the plants? With only one Betta, live plants, in a 30 liter (roughly 8 gallons) tank, ammonia in the tap water at a level of 0.25 ppm should not be an issue. The plants and bacteria will handle this, as I also explained previously.

So, assuming this fish isn' going to make it. For any future tanks it should definitely be cycled, I treat tap water with Prime, have plants - and that should be ok?
Is there an advantage of having a bucket of tap water treated with prime a day or 2 before water changes? (as it's a very small tank)

If the Betta dies, remove it and do a complete water change. Rinse the filter media in a bucket of dechlorinated water (you can use water siphoned from the aquarium). This will allow the bacteria to remain alive. It should not be necessary to "cycle" the tank, which could only make things worse. I'd like to know what the plants are; floating are best for all this, but faster growing plants do the task (assimilating ammonia/ammonium). Also, what is your pH?

There is no benefit to letting water sit for a day before adding it. Prime and similar conditioners work immediately. And as I mentioned previously, after 24-36 hours the ammonium reverts back to ammonia anyway, so it is better to add the fresh water, with Prime, to the aquarium so the plants and bacteria can begin using it. Nothing will in a bucket of just water.
 
I'm a bit confused by your statement:
"I double checked and tap water ammonia is 0.5 and tank was 0.25 (before water change). So it's bringing it down a little but not enough."
Bear in mind that in a tank that's just started to cycle, a slight reduction in ammonia would not discount the corresponding increase in nitrites which are every bit as toxic!

"Is there an advantage of having a bucket of tap water treated with prime a day or 2 before water changes? (as it's a very small tank)"

You might think so, but not really. I mean, you could, but Prime nearly instantly detoxifies source water so Prime can be added to the tank followed immediately by source tap water.

I'm remembering when Abbey was 5 years old and lost her first Beta. It was a tragedy with a lot of sad emotion, a funeral, and burial out back. Next came a goldfish and when it passed, I cringed and braced myself but instead when I told her, there was just a calm, "Okay, can I get another fish?" (go figure)

Edit Note: Apparently Byron and I were typing at similar times as when I posted I saw his response to the OP's previous post.
 
I think the nitrite have been kept down by the water changes as ideas doing frequent ones since it wasn't uncycled (not realising I was doing nothing to help with the ammonia)

It looks like the water company uses chloramine from what I can find. This is ringing a slight bell as I remember reading that before but testing my tap water and at that time it was ok. That was quite a few years ago though.

I totally misunderstood about the Prime, sorry. I thought you were saying it takes 24-36 hours to convert ammonia to ammonium, but it's the other way around. Sorry - just misread that.

The plants are just have moss, java fern, betta balls and anacharis. Nothing very established as it's a new tank. I'll get some frogbit.

Thanks so much for explaining it all. I' feeling really bad for that poor fish that I was too selfish to wait.
 
What test kit are you using? The API test kit cant tell the difference between ammonia and ammonium.

Whats the PH of the water?

"Is there an advantage of having a bucket of tap water treated with prime a day or 2 before water changes? (as it's a very small tank)"

No there is no advantage, Prime will bind ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate for 24-48 hours. At which point, if they are still present, will be released.
 

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