Tank With No Lid

[rodders666]

Hi,
I closed all my tanks off due to a house move, now after a year I want to set up a single tank. It's 30*12*15 inch, around 85 litres. I have an external APS 1000ef filter (1000l/hr) which is huge for the tank but I always prefer over filtration).
The tank I have doesn't have a lid and has a clip on lighting system. I've seen lots like these and always thought they looked really nice.
My main issue is stocking as I've never had and open top tank before.

What fish should I definitely avoid, and what would be good fish for this type of tank.

The tank set up will be based on the fish, so at the moment I'm looking for ideas before I choose substrate etc.

Tank will be fully cycled before stocking.

I've heard Gouramis are a definite no for open tanks.

Thanks.

 

[fluttermoth]

Is your water hard or soft?

 

[rodders666]

Sorry, I don't have the figures but I believe it's classed as soft.
Would RO water make a difference?
My LFS has a decent deal on RO in that you buy a 25ltr for £12 then you can fill it back up for £2.

 

[fluttermoth]

It's better to use your tap water, unless you have very specific fish that you want to keep that won't do well in it. It makes water changes (especially emergency ones) much easier if you can use what you have.
 
If your water's soft anyway, there's not much point looking at RO. If you look on your supplier's website, they will (somewhere!) have the water parameters listed  
 
We really don't like to discuss fish species until we know what hardness the water is; it's really important to many fish.

 

[Byron]

I agree with fluttermoth, but would like to offer some observations concerning your open tank.  
 
You might be surprised at how many fish will jump out of a tank, especially during darkness, for whatever reason.  I personally would never have a tank open unless the water level is well below the top, and then depending upon fish species.  A very substantial cover of floating plants would also help keeping fish inside the tank.
 
Another concern is evaporation.  This will cool the tank faster if it is open as opposed to having a cover where the water can condense and much of it will fall back into the tank.  The air above the water will be cooler, which can be a real problem for some fish, like the gourami you mention.  But the heater will have to work harder to maintain a warm temperature, a concern especially in a cool climate (like the UK) and certainly especially so in winter.  Most of us do not keep our homes at tropical temperatures during the night if at all.
 
There is also the risk of dust and objects getting into the tank.  And that water that evaporates, when there is no cover, will get into the walls and this is not always good for the structure.
 
I will assume the light, being clip-on, has a glass cover to prevent getting wet.  Water evaporating can damage any electrical lighting unit even if it doesn't hit the light itself and shatter it.
 
Byron.

 

[rodders666]

This is the information from the water utilities site for my post code. A lot of information so just screen shot it all

 
I'm thinking a tank with no lid is a bad idea now after Byron's input. I can't add a lid as the lighting won't penetrate, so I think a condensation tray would be my best option.

 

[StevenF]

 
 
This is the information from the water utilities site for my post code. A lot of information so just screen shot it all

In that case I would have posted the line to the web site.  I cannot read the information in the right picture.  But in the left the calcium and magnesium levels are all well below saturation levels for carbonates.  Iron and manganes levels are also very low.  I doubt aquarium plants will even grow in this water.  It is very soft water based on the mineral content.  It's probably rain water.  
 
No need to use RO water. All Danios and Tetras will all do well in this water. These are very large groups of closely related fish.  So you should be able to find tetras or danios you like.   For Shrimp and snails I would add a few sea shells or dead coral to increase the Calcium and magnesium level to make it suitable for them.  Guppies would probably not do well in this water.  They prefer hard water.   If you want plants, fertilize with Seachem Flourish ( it is the most complete fertilizer that I have seen on the market and you are going to need most of what it has).  Chlorine levels are just barely safe.  So test your water for Chlorine before adding it to the aquarium and if necessary de-chorinate it. Nitrate levels are also safe but always test your water first to confirm that.

 

[Byron]

At the top of the left chart it gives the hardness as 1.75 Clarke, which converted is 25 ppm CaCO3, or 1.4 dGH.  Very soft, though not as soft as my 7 ppm GH water.  Stay with soft water fish, as already mentioned.
 
From your tank dimensions, it is 23 gallons (= 85 litres as you said), so this is roughly a 20g long.  Smaller fish willobviously work better, and with soft water you have a large selection to choose from.  One issue here, though, and that is your filter; you comment that it is strong, and this is not going to work in this small a tank with such fish.  The species that are small are almost all from quiet waters, be they lagoons in small streams, flooded forest, quiet pools or in some cases swamps.  So I would definitely get another filter, if this one cannot be significantly lessened.  I would use a dual sponge filter in this sized tank, with the likely fish species.  My 10g, 20g and 30g tanks all have Elite dual sponge filters connected to an air pump.  My 33g has an Eheim Mini internal filter that is simply a small sponge with a motorhead.  Something comparable is all you want here.
 
You made a comment about over-filtration.  This is a concept misunderstood by many in the hobby.  The fact is, that one cannot gain any benefits by "over filtration," which technically is somewhat impossible to begin with.  Any filter can only go so far with nitrifying bacteria, and adding more filters or faster flow cannot increase this filtration.  And in fact, too much flow through the filter can work the opposite, and reduce the effective filtration.
 
You mention substrate, and I would recommend sand.  With the sort of fish suited to this tank, sand is the ideal and most natural substrate.  You may likely want substrate-feeding fish (examples like corydoras cats, small loaches, small loricariids, perhaps dwarf cichlids) and sand is really the only substrate for these fish.  Plants do very well in sand.  I now have play sand in all 7 of my current tanks.
 
You will also want wood.  Chunks of driftwood, branches, standing trees are all options.  Wood is found in almost all natural habitats of soft water fish.  And dried leaves can add some authenticity too, along with benefits like bacteria and infusoria food for fry and small fish.
 
On the tank cover and light penetration...something as simple as two p[ieces of glass that can be hinged in the middle, or just left, should do fine.  I have this on my larger tanks, and the light fixture sits across the tank frame lengthwise but I don't see why this won't work with a clip-on light.
 
Byron.

 

[rodders666]

Byron, a lot to take in so thank you.

I'm going to put a spray bar on the filter to 'dampen' it a little and see how that goes, I can rig it as I had an older one so it's spread around most of the tank.

I'm going to go for sand, and some driftwood with plants.

I'll get it up and cycled then see what the actual hardness, pH etc it before choosing fish.

 

[Byron]

Byron, a lot to take in so thank you.

I'm going to put a spray bar on the filter to 'dampen' it a little and see how that goes, I can rig it as I had an older one so it's spread around most of the tank.

I'm going to go for sand, and some driftwood with plants.

I'll get it up and cycled then see what the actual hardness, pH etc it before choosing fish.

 
Sounds good.  I will just make a comment on sand...it has to be inert (meaning, it will not affect water chemistry) and it must be smooth (so fish do not get injured digging into it or sifting it through their mouths/gills).  Play Sand is ideal on both counts, and is very inexpensive.

 

[fropuf]

I don't know much about fish yet, I'm still a beginner, but I do know a few things. Danios are a no-no fish with no lid, as they LOVE to jump. Either keep the water level low, or, what I would do, Find a clear hard plastic and cut it so it can easily cover the tank. If there is a lip underneath the edge, you could cut it to that so it doesn't slip. As for water hardness and such, I'm clueless on that level, so sorry I couldn't be any more help.

 

[rodders666]

Ok, had a few issues with my toddler so not done anything at all with the tank apart from add a 'condensation' lid

Today I got a couple of those 5-in-1 test strips of a friend and this is my tap water tested.
 
From my view, it looks like VERY soft water with a pH of 6.5. Is there anything to harden this up a little for more fish choice, or would that be harder work than needed with more risk of potentially harming the fish.
 
How can I get an even more accurate hardness test?

 

[Byron]

Your last question first...yes there is a more accurate test, the API liquid for GH/KH, but I wouldn't waste money on that.  We have your earlier water authority report, and now this test (admittedly strips which tend to be less accurate than liquid test kits) which seems to be in the same field, 25-30 ppm, so I think we can assume this is accurate.
 
To the question of hardening the water...this can be done, obviously, but I wouldn't recommend it.  The vast majority of fish (freshwater) are soft water fish.  It is only if you wanted livebearers, rift lake cichlids, or a few other cyprinids.  But since the tank is too small for the rift lake fish (shell dwellers possibly excepted) and most livebearers (thinking the colourful platy, swordtails, mollies), there would be little point fussing over hardening the water.
 
Most of the South American fish (tetra, pencilfish, hatchetfish, catfish) are ideally suited, as are most of the SE Asian smaller fish (rasbora, etc).  And this is by far the vast majority of freshwater aquarium fish.  I would say you are ideally situated with this water.
 
Byron.

 

[rodders666]

Thanks again, Byron.
 
What would you recommend as a stocking plan, for different substrates?

Sand:

Gravel:
 
I'm not a fan of live plants, I've had bad experience with them in the past (snails, dying off etc), I do have a few silk plants and I'm not against wood and moss balls (marimo), but atm it is an empty tank so I can scape according to potential stock.
 
It's my understanding that tetras require an established tank of at least 6 months (I may have mis-read, but that's my understanding), so what would be ideal as first fish in (after full fishless cycle of course). I think they get a bad rap, but I am a fan of Neon Tetras, I'd be happy to eventually have a good group of them.
 
 
Thanks

 

[Byron]

Thanks again, Byron.
 
What would you recommend as a stocking plan, for different substrates?

Sand:

Gravel:
 
I'm not a fan of live plants, I've had bad experience with them in the past (snails, dying off etc), I do have a few silk plants and I'm not against wood and moss balls (marimo), but atm it is an empty tank so I can scape according to potential stock.
 
It's my understanding that tetras require an established tank of at least 6 months (I may have mis-read, but that's my understanding), so what would be ideal as first fish in (after full fishless cycle of course). I think they get a bad rap, but I am a fan of Neon Tetras, I'd be happy to eventually have a good group of them.
 
 
Thanks

 
I would select sand rather than gravel for the substrate.  This is a relatively small tank, and the small-sized fish that will suit it will generally prefer sand.  Sand will also create the illusion of more space (being small grained).  There are a couple situations where I might use gravel; both are riverscapes, either Central American (for livebearers, medium cichlids) or India/Asian for some of the loaches.  But even here, sand can work well.  It is a natural looking substrate, and poses no issues for fish.  I use common play sand, as it is dark, inert and not at all rough.
 
Silk plants are fine.  One thing I would recommend however is floating plants.  These are easy to take care of, and they provide an excellent biological benefit.  Being fast growing, they take up a lot of nutrients and are good for water stability.  Floating plants are ammonia sinks as one person put it.  Plus they shade the tank, which suits most forest fish.  You could have a very authentic aquascape using several chunks of wood, sand substrate, maybe branches, dried leaves, and floating live plants.
 
Snails are your friends.  I have hundreds in my tanks.  They get everywhere, eating all the organics (fish excrement, etc), breaking it down faster for the various bacteria.  Real helpers.
 
Many fish do not adjust as easily in newer tanks as opposed to more established tanks.  And with smaller fish, we are sometimes dealing with more sensitive fish, and many will be wild caught.  Once you decide on the aquascape--and here, I recommend aquascaping an aquarium for the fish, as they have needs and will be less stressed and thus healthier if the aquascape provides what nature has programmed them to expect in their environment--we can consider fish species.
 
It is possible with floating plants to introduce a few fish right off, with no "cycling" as such.
 
Byron.