ok thanks all
so i guess what ill do is wait another 3 weeks and ill continue with my 40% water changes/gravel vacs every other day(trying to rid of a little worm/nemotode outbreak as well)....lots of work that is.
when i cant see any worms left in the tank im going to open up my eheim canister filter(too scared right now) and give it a good rinse in old tank water, as well as get replace the filter pads in the Aqua clear 50 thats running as well... the sponges are 2 years old and getting GROSS so hopefully theres enough bacteria in the eheim to re establish the AC...
then as suggested ill add fish slowly so i dont get any ammonia or nitrite spikes.
no suggestions on which types of fish i could consider adding
?
Hi, kaisa,
just wondering what kind of worms/nematodes you were trying to get rid of, if they'd been identified in another thread, or if they're potentially the source - perhaps carriers of some stage in the life-cycle - of some/most of your problems.
I've lost entire tanks of fish, 1 of beautiful wild-caught female bettas and female guppies to a nasty red East Asian nematode and 1 other sorority of young female bettas all bought from the same source to a horrible possible type of anchor worm which drilled out right through my poor fish, and that, along with the research I did at those times, in the frantic search for identification and accessable cures, has made me very aware of the number of imported and not easily ID-ed problems we may now face, often without recognizing the symptoms/causes as they were previously unknown in our countries.
There were in both cases a great variety of secondary ills present, (although initially successfully treated,) due to the nutrient depletion/damage caused by internal parasites, although, again in both cases, the fish had improved steadily in beauty and condition for some time prior to their rapid degeneration.
Had any survived, I would not have risked exposing any further fish to potential contagion unless, perhaps, the fish had shown no symptoms for an extended period, probably of about a year, in case the fish, while coping well themselves, were nonetheless carriers, something that could still have been the case even that long after.
You may simply be referring to live food worms, or to the common tiny white worms, which I've recently learnt are more often typically harmless detritus worms than potentially toxic (when eaten by shrimp, at any rate) flatworms, in which case (unless they eat plants) there's likely no problem, as they often come in on plants and initially reproduce in possibly very high numbers only to die down again.
In case you or anyone else is interested, I'll include a link below which contain pictures that might aid in IDing these, if required.
http
/www.fish-as-pets.com/2007/11/planar...et-answers.html
Clicking on the picture of several sorts of worms opens a window of interesting info I'm actually just going through myself, the URL being:
http/www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2007/...es-in-fish.html
http/www.wetwebmedia.com/roundwor.htm
... Not a pretty story, but one that must be told, Dear Reader, for roundworms are indeed, important and literally everywhere. Most are benign, quite a few beneficial, but alas, there be a few noisome species that infect our favorite domestics and even (yipes!) ourselves. Read on should you have an inquiring mind, a strong stomach and would like to be in the know as to one of this planet's major-league phyla, though poorly known amongst aquarists, the roundworms ...
... Check it out, they're everywhere! I heard a statement back in the old graduate college years that if every living thing but the nematodes was removed for Earth, you could make out their outlines from the nematodes inside and outside of everything. So if these darn things are so common and numerous, where are they and why don't we hear about them more often?
First of all, most are small, often microscopic, colorless, non-descript and otherwise un-exciting. As to the lack of chatting about the group, I guess it's due to the fact that not-a-whole-lot is known, other than descriptive biology; "Well, gee, lookey here, this fish is dead and lo and behold, another nematode, let's describe it", science. To cite a personal example: Some years ago (mid to late 70's) Chris Turk (of Ocean Nutrition fame) came to town (sunny southern cal.) to work for Sea World at their wanna be aquaculture facility. A friend and roomie, Mike Kent, who later got his M.Sc. and PhD. from work on a so-called free-living turbellarian parasitic worm (those black spots on yellow tangs) written about in these pages, noticed some whitish worms protruding from some native clownfish, the garibaldi Hypsypops rubicunda' cloaca's. As this observation was positively correlated with mass mortality and the consequential closing of the facility and loss of their jobs, Mike and Chris were most anxious to determine the etiology (fancy term for study of causative mechanisms) and better still, treatment for aforementioned catastrophe. Well, yes, Dear Reader, the problem, perhaps not a priori, yet per accidens, turned out to be a nematode infection, and all was lost, with some sacrificed specimens found to be more than half full, dry weight, with worms.
Turns out such occurrences are not uncommon with wild caught and a few notable cultured species. Most marine and the majority of freshwater fishes do have endo-parasitic roundworms..., but are they "parasitic"? Why, yes, by definition "they live in or on another species where they derive nourishment and protection"; but to what degree are they detrimental to their hosts?
In most situations/circumstances apparently not much, as aquarium specimens tend to thrive and even reproduce, if not simply survive in captivity. Such semi-benign parasitic relations are ofttimes referred to as "successful", as the host apparently has little detrimental effect on their host.
But once again, to what degree does a zooparasitic fauna contribute to overall negative "stress" possibly resulting in diminished vitality? Hmmmmmm. And what's a mother to do, feed them Total? Well, actually yes, to some extent. ...
By the time I found the article below, which led to another article focused on the sometimes fatal human effects of consumption of raw, infected fish, it was too late for the sorority (and guppies) it very probably (I'm virtually certain) pertained to, as they were no longer eating.
Had I not retained for several days the body of the first fish to die, I'd never have seen the enormous, if thin, red worm which emerged, and would never have followed instructions in the removal of all gravel, etc. from the tank to see the hundreds of tiny red worms (which would have been invisible in gravel) ultimately passed by the then-surviving fish under treatment and syphoned out daily for weeks, until the remaining few fish were humanely put down far later than they should have been.
However, this (references being some distance down the page,) may be helpful to anyone reading who's having smilar problems, although the prognosis is not good for small fish, due to internal damage caused by certain geographical types of Capillaria, when (rarely) mentioned are typically listed only as a single North American species having less drastic effects.
Therefore I've included this, although the worms are unlikely to be visible in aquaria and would not be regarded as the type of infestation described above.
On the other hand, white worms and parasitic others can obviously co-exist, without the latter being noticed, and could easily render fish susceptible to other disease, such as Columnaris.
In fact, the appearance of secondary illnesses may be a sign of serious parasitic load in fish thereby weakened.
http/www.thekrib.com/Diseases/nematodes.html
... Capillaria are a different ugly altogether. They live in the intestines as
well. Some female worms bear living juveniles and eggs. All pass from the
definitive host in the feces. In water, the eggs embryonate and are eaten
by small fishes. They hatch in the intestine of the fish, and develop into
juveniles after a few weeks. These worms can cause massive populations to
accumulate and can wipe out entire aquaria full of fish. The worms cause
significant damage to the small intestines leading to degeneration. (I'm
waiting for another textbook to get the drugs and dosages, because there are
only the drugs listed for humans: mebendazole and albendazole -- although I
have seen the name praziquantel mentioned in postings. According to the
textbook, this drug is effective against tapeworm, not capillaria.) I don't
know anything about the toxicity of these two drugs in fish. Maybe someone
out there knows some more.
Given the description in various postings, it would seem that perhaps
Capillaria were the bad guys, although these worms are from Southeast Asia
not North and South America. It is feasible that fish from different
continents are cross-infecting at importers. Some importers routinely treat
all wild-caughts with anti-helminthics, but it's possible that the drugs
they are using are not catching all the various types of worms found in the
fish. Anti-helminthics vary in their relative toxicities to fish. ...
And I've just come across this, suggesting a 'snail trap' method to be used for 'pest' worms, and which also makes some very good points.
http/www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/worms.htm
... If your eyes are good, and you look at the tank closely, expect to see some kind of microorganisms in your tank. This is normal. If there are truly none in the tank after a few weeks, something is seriously wrong! ...
Unexpected aquarium critters aren't all bad, either, and some are very helpful.
But it's nice to have some idea of what they're likely to be and do, so I thought the above might possibly be useful/interesting to you or others and worth including here.
, ally86ozzy
