Tank Ammonia Spike

neilzomg

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Last Saturday i gave the filters a good clean, syphoned the water into the tank and then i cleaned the insides of my filters inside the tank water with a filter sponge... 
 
Ever since my ammonia has been spiking and it looks like the tank is cycling again as the nitrites are starting to rise as of today.
 
Have had this tank for two years and haven't changed the filter sponges in a year
 
 
 
How many filters do you have/cleaned?
 
I have two filters on the tank, cleaned them both in the tank water because the insides of them were quite gunked up, also had some plant parts inside.
 
This may be an issue.you perhaps overcleaned.usually you would clean filters of more than one on separate occasions.
 
I'll keep testing the water and doing daily water changes just to try and keep some levels down. I'll do them on alternate weeks just to make sure im not killing off bacteria. Should have thought of that myself /slap
 
Cheers :p
 
The more water you change here, the longer you will have ammonia and nitrite. Without knowing more details its hard to suggest the good course of action.
 
Needed numbers would be:
1. pH and temp. of tank water
2. Ammonia and nitrite readings day specific.
3. Water changes dones and readings before and after.
 
Read here as it will explain how to deal with ammonia and nitrite (yes I know you are not cycling but the chemistry is the same) http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/433778-rescuing-a-fish-in-cycle-gone-wild-part-il/
 
That gunk you cleaned out contained good bacteria. Cleaning the walls of the filter also removed bacteria.
 
The only time to replace sponges is when they are coming apart. They should be cleaned when the filter flow slows.
 
A good maint. routine should not be causing one to lose any serious amount of bacteria.
 
Ph is 7.0 as i keep it at that
 
amonnia is at least 8,0ppm bearing in mind i've used ammo lock which aparently gives false readings as well. It's after i used it that i noticed the jump too maybe it's partly to blame
Nitrite 0.25ppm has been for the past 4-5 days
nitrate 0
 
I haven't replaced any sponges in a year, i also cleaned the glass inside with a filter sponger from the filter, and cleaned the filters with the same sponge. 
 
I think then what you meant to say is you really have no idea what the ammonia levels are in your tank? What were your ammonia readings prior to adding the ammo lock?
 
I mistrust your nitrite reading as well.
 
I am not a fan of using ammonia detoxifiers.
 
Amonia, nitrite and nitrate were all a dead 0 up until i cleaned the filters and used ammo lock.
 
I tested there again this morning and the amonia test is so green it's almost a dark blue.
 
the nitrite looks like it's at least 2ppm 
 
nitrate looks 20ppm 
 
so something has really upset the bacteria in the tank and it looks as if its going through a mini cycle
 
You need to accept the fact that your readings cannot possibly be accurate. This is based on chemistry.
 
Using API tests, here is what happens in the absence of live plants.
 
1 ppm of ammonia can be turned into 2.55 ppm of nitrite at the most. This has to do with the atomic weights of the elements involved. So work backwards and your nitrite readings are not in line with your ammonia readings. And your ammonia readings are not in line with the fact you have live plants.
 
Then there is the fact that ammonia in a tank cannot remain at a constant level for days on end without using some fancy equipment to make this happen. If fish are making ammonia in a completely uncycled tank, ammonia levels must rise. If there are any ammonia bacteria at all, they will multiply with excess ammonia. When they do, ammonia should stop rising, level out and then drop. Leveling out is not a long process- a day or two.
 
Next, no matter what the manufacturers tell us, the bacteria mostly use NH3 not NH4. Some are able to utilize NH4 but in a much less efficient manner. So using ammonia detoxifiers will slow a cycle and overdosing them will slow it greatly. This is easy to see if you ever have the pH in a cycling tank drop towards 6.5 or lower. The reason is at those levels there is minimal NH3. In a tank with a real 8 ppm of total ammonia which is at 78F and a pH of 6.0, NH3 is only .0048 ppm and NH4 is 7.9952 ppm. Push that pH to 7.0 and the NH3 is .048 ppm (almost crossing the red line at .05 ppm). Raise the pH to 8.0 and NH3 will be .4566 and your fish will mostly all be dead pretty soon.
 
The more "junk" you add to a tank to try and deal with the problem, the worse off you will be. Once one can be certain that ammonia levels in a tank are unsafe for the fish (and this is not just any reading of ammonia), then the best course of action is a water change to lower the concentration of ammonia to where it is "safe." This way the bacteria keep getting fed well and will multiply. Bacteria multiplying is what will fix the problem. For high nitrite, chloride in the water is the solution.
 
All of this is for cases involving cycling issues, It doesn't matter if one is cycling a brand new tank or if one has trashed/lost most of their bacteria in an established tank. That is not the same thing as an established tank suddenly having ammonia when one has done nothing to cause it. In such cases the cause if from within the tank such as something dying and rotting unseen.
 
As soon as you noticed that the fish were struggling, you should have tested for ammonia, and if you got a reading, tested for nitrite as well. This has to be done before you change any water or add something like ammo lock or anything else that detoxifies ammonia. If you cannot measure the problem, you cannot track it and figure out what is going on and how to fix it.
 
So I will say this one last time, I have no clue what is going on in your tank because you cannot provide any meaningful numbers that would permit this. The reason is you cannot get an accurate reading of what is going on. So I will give you one last suggestion and you can follow it or not as you choose.
 
You need to reset your tank. Change as much water as you can. At least 75% and more if possible. Dechlor the water using the normal dosage, DO NOT OVERDOSE - DO NOT ADD AMMO LOCK. Wait about 10 minutes and test for ammonia, you should be able to get a fairly accurate reading before the ammonia detoxifiers make this impossible. This will give you a baseline reading. Check the product information for your dechlor to see how long it will persist in the water. A product like SeaChem Prime will dissipate after a day or so. other products will persist until they have been used up. So depending on the ammonia load produced by the fish it can be a day or a week.
 
Hopefully, you can get Prim (or similar) and use that if you don't already. That will let you test again fairly soon and get good numbers. When you test the second time where ammonia is vs the initital test will give us a way to know how much ammonia is being created and not handled. Knowing this will then permit us to take the most appropriate next step.
 
The best way to know there is something wrong in a tank is to let the fish "tell" you. Look for abnormal behavior such as fish hiding, being lethargic, not eating, gasping at the surface or swimming erratically. Such things always override test results as an indicator of issues.
 
If you decide to follow my advice, post your test result in this thread. Indicate how much water you changed (%) and what the ammonia and nitrite levels were when you tested very soon after you refilled. Also list the dechlor brand you are using. Once this is done I can suggest the next step. Also give us an idea of what level of planting you have in the tank- light, moderate or heavy. Also what level of lighting- low, moderate or high. Finally, list any other additives you use for anything especially the plants. Plants matter because they use ammonia and do so much faster than bacteria.
 
Check the tank carefully for a dead fish. A friend had a tank go really bad, the end result was a quite large fish that had been captured and killed by a crayfish, then secreted under a log. I was there testing the ammonia, and after a 90% water change the ammonia went from 1ppm to well over 8 within an hour.
 
No abnormal fish behaviour, I did a test seen ammonia was high and started dosing with ammolock and only seen a rise.
 
I did a big water change yesterday didn't have time to post results as I had to head off to work. But It dropped down to 4ppm inside 10 minutes which was a relief at least things are getting lower.
 
I do not have live plants in the tank.
 
I did around 70-75% water change and i'm using King British chlorination. 
 
I added nothing else into the water except the dechlor
 
tests are the same this morning.
 
I did have two baby mollies dissapear but i assumed my large pleco ate them.. as i found no trace of them inside any filters etc 
 
Tank has seemed to stabilise again, Did the big water change and let everything settle for a few days as i was busy at work and everything is back down to 0 
 

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