Tail type genetics

[OohFeeshy]

I've done a search, and all the genetics pages I've found are to do with colour, which I'm not highly interested in ATM. So, say I wanted... PKCT's. Or some, at least. The females just look like CT's but the males ... I love the plakat body and short fins, but the more ornamental spikey tail. I know both CT and PK are recessive, so what would I get with a CT female (easier to find) and a PK male? Not sure what genetics they'd have, but roughly, what to expect? I like both, so I'm not too bothered what to get, but since you seem to get traits like this in the F2 (or second genration spawn, whatever you breeders call it), what would be best for maximum pkct?

 

[Synirr]

Howdy... I'm actually planning on spawning for plakat CTs in the future using the juvies I'm currently raising
If you spawn a plakat to a CT, you'll get all long-finned fry with various degrees of combing in their tails... like little Agares Wuv sent me. That F1 generation will all be plakat and CT geno, so if you were to spawn two fry from the F1 together, you'd get the dihybrid ratio -- 9:3:3:1
9 long-finned (delta or veil, depending on the finnage of the parental fish, 6 of which carry the CT gene)
3 long-finned crowntails
3 plakats (two of which carry the CT gene)
1 plakat crowntail

That gives you 6.25% CT plakats
You totally can't tell I'm a biology major, can you?

Edit: Whoops, forgot to add some helpful links:
http/www.bubblenest.net/geneticsymbols.html

http/www.bettas-jimsonnier.com/genetics6.htm

 

[OohFeeshy]

Right, so for the F1 they'd all be CT's or combtails? And then a spawn from two of those would have the 9:3:3:1? Hmm.... Is there a way of getting more CT's and PK's (not CTPK, I know that will take several spawns)? And would the result be the same with a PK female and a CT male?

EDIT- I know people are looking at this, and probably thinking 'Huuh? ?', but would you lot still be interested in the 'long fin fry with various degrees of combage'? Free for the less fringed ones, but you'd have to pay postage though.

EDIT again- To throw another spanner in the works, and if you really can be bothered to work this out, what if I managed to get a half giant male? Nya ha ha.... Would I end up with some long finned half giants? And if I spawned two of them together, would I get some longfin giants? I'm now finding this highly interesting, if rather confuzzling

 

[Synirr]

In the F1 they'd all be combtails... some might look like regular deltas and some might look like crowntails, but they'd all be heterozygous for the CT trait.

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking on the "more CTs or plakats" part... The sex of the parental fish won't matter, if that's what you mean. The female can be the CT or the plakat, you're still gonna get the same outcome in the fry. I'm assuming you have knowledge of basic genetics, but I'll explain it anyway... each fish gets two copies of each chromosome, one from each parent. Since both plakat and CT traits are recessive, that means that to be CT or plakat, the fish has to have the gene for that trait on both chromosomes. The problem is that each parent only contributes one chromosome to each fry, so while they are getting one gene for CT and one for plakat, they don't have the two of each that would make them CT plakats, see what I'm saying?

If Wuv still has any fish left from her plakat x CT spawn (like Agares in my sig,) spawning one of those with either a CT or a plakat would get you 50% CTs or plakats, but it would be trickier to get CT plakats in the F2, if that's what you're trying to get.
Say you breed one of Wuv's CT x plakat fish with a CT. You'll get some CTs, but only half of those will carry the gene for plakat, so if you spawn two siblings together to get CT plakats you've only got a 25% chance that both of them carry the plakat gene at all.

Would people be interested in long-finned fry with various degrees of combage? I dunno, ask Wuv . That's what Agares is and I was interested in him

 

[OohFeeshy]

Yeah, it just clicked how those chart things work, so I just realised sex doesn't matter *slaps head*. Agares is very nice looking, if they're more delta looking than veil, thats fine by me. OK, to clarify (yes, I'm pretty slow), what genes does a CTPK get from each parent?

 

[Synirr]

You're not slow, genetics (and my poor teaching skills) are just confusing!

If the parents you start with have wide caudal spreads, then you'll probably get mostly delta offspring. A CT plakat has to get one gene for the plakat trait and one for the CT trait from each parent so that they have two copies. If it only has one gene for plakat (like Agares) it will have long fins. If it only gets one gene for CT (also like Agares) it can look like anything from a normal delta to a crowntail... though honestly, the crowns on those with only one gene for CT aren't as distinct as they are for true CTs.

Since apart from buying a CT plakat it's practically impossible to get a fish that carries at least one copy of each gene (unless Wuv has some left, of course *lol*,) breeding a CT to a plakat is the only way to be 100% sure that both parents actually carry a copy of both genes.

 

[OohFeeshy]

LOL, OK then. I'll think about it for a while then, scour google etc. for any helpful links and begin making space... I think we're going on holiday in October, so nothing will start before that (considering how much food was left in all the tanks when I got home from last holiday, I'm not trusting my nan with an expensive pair and a load of hungry fry ). And I'm sure my mum won't mind an advance on Xmas presents... hey, who needs an MP3 player . Oh yeah, so after a few spawns, if I do end up with a couple of CTPK's, two spawned will produce...? All CTPK's, or what?

 

[Synirr]

Yep, if you breed two CT plakats together you'll get all CT plakats
So the spawning plan would go like this, assuming you start with a CT and a plakat:
F1 -- all long-finned combtail
F2 -- 9:3:3:1
F3 -- all CT plakat

 

[OohFeeshy]

Yey Thanks a lot Synirr, I better brush up on IDing female CTPK's . Well, I'll probably do CTPK's for a while, then might add a few other factors in- giant, DT... Who knows? Well, it will be fun.

 

[BrookeLea]

wow...that was confising but also very helpful. good job synirr!

 

[Andie]

lol tyvm for posting that Synirr; I started posting here three different times to explain the same thing but my explanation was far more garbled than yours, so I sorta wandered off and doodled Punnett's squares for a while and hoped you'd see the thread

 

[BrookeLea]

lol tyvm for posting that Synirr; I started posting here three different times to explain the same thing but my explanation was far more garbled than yours, so I sorta wandered off and doodled Punnett's squares for a while and hoped you'd see the thread

[snapback]879709[/snapback]​

hey andie, i just noticed.... look at you avatar and look at my banner. only thing different is yours has a shadow under the type. weird!

 

[Andie]

lol I find Comic font is one of the easiest to use in AVs because it reads clearly; I just added the shadow so the font could match my fish )

 

[BrookeLea]

lol I find Comic font is one of the easiest to use in AVs because it reads clearly; I just added the shadow so the font could match my fish )

[snapback]879867[/snapback]​

i think mine's actually chalkboard, but they're very similar. i'm a children's illustrator and chalkboard is my "professional font." this is the back of my promo card:

 

[OohFeeshy]

lol tyvm for posting that Synirr; I started posting here three different times to explain the same thing but my explanation was far more garbled than yours, so I sorta wandered off and doodled Punnett's squares for a while and hoped you'd see the thread

[snapback]879709[/snapback]​

I had a go at Punnets squares too, but got confused because both traits are recessive.... and the page I learnt about them from didn't go into that