Sword plant nutrient deficiency?

[Flyer99]

Hello, I’ve set up a new 80l tank, and I wanted a second opinion on my problem.

Tank has been going for about 1 month. I added the plants about 3 weeks ago, and I am aware plants need to adjust to new water parameters. However, it seems my sword plant is doing worse than all the other plants, I’m wondering if it’s just normal melting when first introduced to new tank or if it’s a deficiency, what troubles me is because it’s the smaller leafs which are affected, normally if it’s new tank problem then it would be big leafs?

tank parameters are as follows:

nitrate: 40ppm (trying to get it down)

Lighting: using fluval 3.0 at around 40% power on all LED’s except blue which is at 3%. They are on for 6.5 hours with 2 hour ramp up and down. Fluval light is 38cm from substrate and is 32w

fertlizer: so far I have not introduced any liquid fertiliser as tank is new, however I do have 1 fertiliser tabs near all root feeders. Was planing on introducing liquid fertilisers in a few weeks
Water change every week: 50%

Co2: no co2 liquid at the moment or gas, but will most likely.

water hardness: very hard water

Could this be an iron deficiency? I can’t see it being magnesium as my water is very hard.

I hope there’s enough information to get an understanding of the situation. All other plants seem to be fine and growing.



thank you to all ?

 

[Byron]

This is less likely a light or nutrient issue (from what you've mentioned). Most species of Echinodorus (sword) plants are propagated emersed, not submersed, by nurseries. This is much less expensive for them. They can do this because this genus of plants are true marsh or bog plants, that usually spend half the year emersed (the dry season) and half submersed when the rains flood the surrounding forest for half the year. Most species adapt to permanent submersed cultivation, which is why they make such lovely aquarium plants.

The leaf structure is different between emersed and submersed. The existing leaves will slowly yellow and die, but from the centre of the crown the new emersed leaves will grow. They will usually be somewhat different in shape, but growing conditions can factor in too. Leave the plant alone, and as the older outer leaves yellow you can remove them, but not too quickly because this plant can transfer nutrients from old leaves into new leaf growth.

The substrate tab fertilizer is good, these are very heavy feeding plants, and they always thrive better with a substrate tab. I've added liquid fertilizer sometimes, usually depending more on other plants like floaters that benefit more from the liquid. The stem plant in the left rear corner might benefit from liquid, but none of the others will if you use substrate tabs, one close to each of the three swords and the crypt.

 

[StevenF]

There are 14 nutrients plants need to grow. Since you are not fertilizing right now it is likely you have multiple deficiencies. If you have multiple nutrient deficiencies the plant may struggle to adapt to the tank. Yes you could have an iron defieicy but you could also have a mangnanese, sulfur zinc, and other possible deficiencies. Some deficiencies will primarily affect old leaves while others can affect new leaves.

I think you need to add a fertilizer to your tank. I prefer liquid fertilizers over root tabs. Since you live in London i would recommend TNC fertilizer. Since your tank already has high nitrate levels I would try TNC Light. I would also check your tap water for nitrate. I have seen enough posts from the UK were people have high nitrate levels in the tap water. So your nitrate level might be difficult to reduce. Also monitor your General hardness level. Adjust the amount of water you change out weekly to keep the GH level stable.

 

[Flyer99]

Hello! Sorry for the late reply, have been quite busy. Thank you to both of you, interesting to hear other peoples thoughts and ideas. I do understand Byron what you mean by new plants being grown in very different ways to how it ends up in a home tank. But what makes me not so sure about it is the fact that the new leafs are the ones affected. Steven your answer is also very interesting and it makes sense. The reason why I havent started on the liquids yet is because I dont want an algea bloom. However by the end of this week I will start to dose:

potassium on one day, then iron and phospohours on the next then a break and then repeat. Once a week maybe add seachem flourish. No need for nitrogen as you said as its always extremely high. I did a water change after 3 days and it was at 45ppm already.

Just to provide more information.

My GH is off the scales, it takes more than 20 drops to change the indicator colour (API test). My KH is 17 drops which equals 17 degrees according to API. My PH is 7.9.

Also here is the sword plant on the day of writing this message. I think a fish is nibbling on it haha.

 

[Byron]

The newer laves do not look problematic to me. I have propagated (vegetative on its own initiative) this plant, Echinodorus grisebachii [likely still sold as E. bleherae but phylogenetic study has determined the actual species] for over a decade and a quality substrate tab like Seachem's Flourish Tab placed close to the root mass and replaced every three months will keep it thriving. Assuming the light is adequate (seems to be). My former 5-foot 115g Amazon riverscape exploded in this plant under moderate (some said low!) light and the tabs, here's a photo (my camera skills were never great, but the idea is there). The several (I think three, maybe four) inflorescences (each with several adventitious plants developing) from the plant left of centre were common on all of these plants, at least once, sometimes twice a year.

 

[Flyer99]

Thank you! Amazing looking tank! If only I had the space to keep something like that. I see, I get the picture, I would confidently say my 60cm fluval plant 3.0 is way beyond powerful for my 80l tank so I will I will always be able to give more light if needed. I think at 35% its a good start. You say seachem's tabs, i'm actually using Easy Life root sticks (they're basically made from clay) I hope that will be okay?

 

[Byron]

Thank you! Amazing looking tank! If only I had the space to keep something like that. I see, I get the picture, I would confidently say my 60cm fluval plant 3.0 is way beyond powerful for my 80l tank so I will I will always be able to give more light if needed. I think at 35% its a good start. You say seachem's tabs, i'm actually using Easy Life root sticks (they're basically made from clay) I hope that will be okay?

Answering the last question, I don't know. I have never used (or even seen) this where I live, so no experience. Checking their website, a couple things bother me.

First, they do seem to eventually dissolve into the water column, and my issue here is, how and to what extent. One big problem with liquid fertilizer or any fertilizer in the water column is that too much can feed algae. Also, what's in the water can get inside the fish as the water enters the fish by osmosis, diffusing over every cell. The Seachem Flourish Tabs do not do this; somehow the nutrients are released as taken up by the near-by roots.

Second, the site does not give the exact "nutrients" (except for iron). Two problems here. Iron is only one micro-nutrient, and it can cause real problems if overdosed, to plants and fish. I have killed floating plants with too much iron on its own. Flourish Tabs have iron in proportion with the other nutrients so this is not going to occur. And those other necessary nutrients are 13 in number and all are present in the correct proportion. The only missing nutrients in FT are oxygen,, hydrogen and carbon, and these are naturally present in a fish tank.

These "iron" laden clay sticks were once very popular, with similar products like a layer of laterite clay under the sand/gravel, until aquarists began to realize they were not as "magical" as first thought, and as scientific botanical studies began showing the facts. Some 11 years ago I used Nutrafin's Plant Grow Sticks, and they really were amazing. They disappeared from stores and I have not been able to find them online, so presumably no longer being made; that was when I tried FT and have stayed with them, with basically the same results. The only other tabs I know of are API's and they are not as good.

 

[itiwhetu]

I think your very hard water is the problem

 

[Flyer99]

Hi Byron, sorry for the late reply. Since I just bought them, I will finish to use these clay sticks (unless the tank develops some very serious problems). You have definitely explained very well why the flourish tabs are superior, and it is true many people like them as they always seem to work wonderfully. As I speak right now, my tank has now started to develop some green algae, its not crazy but its developing on rocks and glass, so theres definitely enough light going in, possibly too much. I have trimmed the dead leafs including the baby ones from the sword plant, if it keeps doing more baby leafs that are not the right colour or form, then something is still not right. I shall wait to see

Thank you for the reply.

 

[Flyer99]

I think your very hard water is the problem

I do think it has an impact as well, but at the same time, hard water means I should have lots of magnesium, but my sword plant is showing a possible sign of magnesium deficiency.

RO water mixed with my normal water?

 

[Stan510]

They eat iron. I like Seachems best.

 

[Ichthys]

Amazons also grow huge root systems, similar to a houseplant. The biggest amazons I ever saw were grown in 6” of fine gravel, with regular feeds of root tabs. They’ll struggle with hardly any substrate.

 

[Stan510]

Iron and yes,at least 3" deep of gravel for it to root properly. But for now,Iron glutamate will green it up.