"Sudden deaths"

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Thanks for the advice; yesterday in the morning i feed the fish some fish flakes, algae wafer and catfish pelets and in the evening i feedthe fish some daphinia, catfish pelets and algae wafers and TetraMinfry food to the adult fish(i know its for fry but the adult fish seem to enjoy it just as much as the fry, it appears to be very nutritious); would feeding them more high protein foods help give them more energy to overcome the desease or should i just stick to the flakes?

Also, i have some fry in the main tank- 5 molly fry and 8 guppy fry and various half grown platys(i am going to rehome the platys at the petshop after i have cured the internal bacteria in the tank); i am worried that the med will kill them or the bacteria, i have a 10gal tank with lots of pearl danio fry and a small plec which temporarily staying there, i would have moved the fry in the main tank there but they are already twice the size of the danio fry and i am scared they will eat them...
Would it be best to move the fry into the 10gal tank or would i just be running the risk of spreading the desease into the 10gal?

 

[Ferris]

Defintaely don't move any fish at the moment, the risk of spreading the disease is too great. Varying the diet is good under any circumstances and i would continue with that.

 

[Squirrelbuddies]

Your first post indicates that the nitrIte level is at 1.0. That's pretty high and can cause death in some fish...

Maybe the meds have affected the biological filatration?

Frequent partial water changes would help to bring the nitrite down.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

I was going to do some water changes but i was worried it would make it too difficult measure out med accuratly and make the med i've got in there less affective...usually when i have med in a tank i do a water change after 4days before adding new medication; should i just wait another 2days before doing the water change or do it now?

 

[MsDad]

When you do your partial water changes, medicate the replacement water before you put it in the tank. That way, since you know how much water you're putting in, you know how much of the meds to add to it. You can't over/underdose that way.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Cheers for the advice; i did a 40% water change yesterday and re-medicated the tank...This morning another panda cory has died....
....... ....... .......
I did a water quality test and everything is perfact as far as the water is concerned; the fish are looking quite active and happy and the mollys/platys are all swimming together in little groups although the 2 remaining panda corys still look realy "quiet"- they're just sitting together not doing anything at all.
....I don't know what else to do...? Is it posible i have some strain of internal bacteria that the med can't treat...?
I have had the panda corys for some months now, so i don't think it is somthing i am doing wrong to them otherwise they would've died months ago- i've successfully kept peppered and albino corys for 1 year and this is the first time any have died on me

 

[Ferris]

Hi, sorry to hear about another loss, this must be getting you down now.

Can you think of anything that has changed recently with the tank? For example have you bought a different brand of de-chlorinator or any sort of additive that you have not used before?

I know you've checked this but is your ammonia reading definately low? Dangerous ammonia levels almost always affect the bottom feeders first.

I don't think you can do anthing else with meds as their are no obvious symptoms, although continue with the anti bacteria if the instructions state any further dosage. The odd think is that i have lost fish to internal bacteria but only 1 at a time, its never spread to other fish.

Unexplained deaths do occur and they are always the most frustrating and i think there have been too many deaths to attribute this to natural causes. Water quality is the main culprit but the tests seem fine.

Once the time is up for the meds course (whatever the instructions say), I would keep up the water changes anyway and hope for the best.

Sorry i can't help more

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Yes i am positive my ammonia reading is definatly low and i have been keeping on top of water changes and tank cleaning well; The only things i have changed out of my regular routine as far as feeding and cleaning is concerned is about 2months ago i changed my brand of water conditioner because my old one(can't remember the name) used to irritate my black m.mollys skin a bit and the new brand(AquaSafe) doesn't. I started feeding my corys catfish pelets by "king british" also around this point.
....Thats all i can think of realy, sorry i can't give you anymore info.
Oh! i just noticed my small filter in the main tank(it has two, a large one and a small one) was vibrating alot and making a humming noise; could this be stressing the fish out?

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Its odd though because i would have thought if my water testing kits were wrong and there was somthing amiss in the water, that the fry would be the first to go in the tank- some are only a week old.

 

[sinistral]

I've looked through this thread-- very sorry for your losses. Sounds like you've gotten some really good advice from Ferris too.

There are a couple of things that I'm confused about:

First, you mentioned that you added guppies to your 50 gallon tank a month ago:

A month or so ago i got some guppys for my 50gal which at the time only had a 5inch plec and 4 albino corys.

but later in the post you say:

The tank which all this is happening in is a 3ft tank which has various corys, platy, mollys, khuli loaches and a 7inch plec- the tank has been set up for 8months now

So I'm not sure if this means the deaths are happening in separate tanks or in the same tank...did you add a bunch of fish over the last month? Are there two tanks that you are talking about?

The other thing is that you listed your water parameters:

Water stats are ammonia=0, nitrate=2, nitrite=1

This strikes me as a rather unusual set of parameters. If you have a fully established tank and experience a bacterial die-off, you'd think that the ammonia and nitrites would both be elevated (I don't know of anything that would selectively kill off one type of bacteria). On the other hand, if you're going through a "mini-cycle", you'd think that the nitrate value would be higher (unless you have live plants)...something to think about hmmmm...

Finally, you noted:

yesterday in the morning i feed the fish some fish flakes, algae wafer and catfish pelets and in the evening i feedthe fish some daphinia, catfish pelets and algae wafers and TetraMinfry food to the adult fish

Is it possible that you're overfeeding?

Don't know if any of these thoughts will be helpful, but maybe in reviewing the events and fact something will occur to you. HTH~ best of luck, wish for the best for the health of your fish

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

I've looked through this thread-- very sorry for your losses. Sounds like you've gotten some really good advice from Ferris too.

There are a couple of things that I'm confused about:

First, you mentioned that you added guppies to your 50 gallon tank a month ago:

A month or so ago i got some guppys for my 50gal which at the time only had a 5inch plec and 4 albino corys.

but later in the post you say:

The tank which all this is happening in is a 3ft tank which has various corys, platy, mollys, khuli loaches and a 7inch plec- the tank has been set up for 8months now

So I'm not sure if this means the deaths are happening in separate tanks or in the same tank...did you add a bunch of fish over the last month? Are there two tanks that you are talking about?

Basically with the two tanks thing i mentioned the guppy tank(50gal tank) i have because i had a similar thing happen in it but it disapeared after i treated the tank with some anti internal bacterial med; when the fish were dying they just seemed to...well die very suddenly.
The main tank(not the 50gal) is where the problem is now; i thought the same thing was going on in the main tank as what had gone on in the 50gal but the fish don't seem to be responding to the anti internal bacterial med...
I dunno; i supose i could be overfeeding my fish a bit but the feeding regime hasn't changed for months now(apart from the catfish pelets).
Im thinking about trying out some new brands of water quality testing kits or getting my water tested at my lfs; i've used the same type of test kit for the last year and it hasn't given me any problems...

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Oh, and the only fish i have got over the last 2months is 3platys which i exchanged for 5 home-bred platy i had in my tank; the new platys are all fine and have shown no signs of illness since i have had them.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Oh and thankyou everyone for all the help/advice/support you have all given me
It has come to the point though where i realy don't know what to do- the most fustrating thing is not knowing what is causing the deaths, i don't care if i can't cure whatever it is, i just want to know what is going wrong so i can at least come to terms with it...You wouldn't guess anything is wrong with the tank by just looking at it, the water is crystal clear, plants are grwoing well, fish are swimming around etc...I just feel like i have been racking my brains through for an answer to all this for ages...

 

[Inchworm]

Hi Tokis-Phoenix

I'm sorry to hear about the problems you are having.

Bacterial infections (and this does seem like the problem) can be exceedingly frustrating. They can strike in different ways and can move swiftly through the tank, or slowly where the fish show symptoms. There are a number of kinds of bacteria that cause these infections and there are strains of each kind. Sometimes they mutate and become immune to the medications that worked well the first time around. It's also possible that you have more than one strain of bacteria active at the same time. It's not unusual for fish to have both a primary and a secondary infection.

Usually fish are resistant to most bacterial infections if they are otherwise healthy and well nourished. It is when they are stressed from some other factor that they fall ill. Some things that will stress a fish are (but are not limited to) overcrowding, infrequent or inadequate water changes, temperature fluctuations, low oxygen content in the water, aggressive tankmates, elevated nitrites, uneaten food in the tank.

Bacteria thrive in warm water, so you might try to slow their growth by keeping the temperature at around 75 to 76 degrees F. Since they eat any leftover food, clean the bottom regularly. This will get rid of excessive pleco poop too, which probably feeds them as well.

Adding an airstone or turning up the filter will increase the oxygen content in the water and will slow their growth too.

Always give the complete dose of any medicine you use to treat bacterial infections to be certain that some of the offending bacteria do not survive to mutate and become resistant. Repeat the treatment or continue longer if you are not sure it is completely gone.

Be sure to keep up regular water changes (and maybe do some extra ones) during treatment. Replace the meds as needed.

Panda corys are sensitive little things as you will see if you check out the Catfish forum. It's not at all unusual for them to be fine one day and dead the next. But other corys are usually stronger and more able to fight off these infections, given the proper treatment.

Remember that while keeping good water parameters, this is no indication of the amount of bacteria in the tank. Water changes and medications are the only way to get rid of them.

Since the bacteria mutate, using a different brand of medication that has the same ingredients as the first one, might not solve the problem. If more treatment is needed, look for one that has different active ingredients. If your problem persists, and if you haven't already tried it, using Maracyn AND Maracyn 2, at the same time, is often good because it will cure both primary and secondary infections, while using only one of them won't.

Good luck and I hope this might have given you some helpful ideas.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Thanks for the advice/info ; the tank temp has been a bit high recently due to the warm weather that has been around recently, i tried turning the heater down a bit but this doesn't seem to change much- when its cold weather the tank is 23/24 degrees and if its realy hot it'll rise to around 26 degrees...I'm thinking about taking the heater out altogether when its warm weather.
I shall try cutting down on the food a bit as there does seem to have been an increase of food been left at the bottom of the tank, should i just leave out the high protein foods like tubifex/daphinia/bloodworms altogether for the mean time and just stick to the flakes and algae wafers?
I don't think my lfs sells "Maracyn" 1 & 2, they just sell the Interpet meds- i shall try and get some of this med on order.
Thanks for the info