Substrate And Plants.

[sparky_555]

I'm in the process of setting up a 10 gallon and i want to use live plant for the first time, can anybody tell me a few plants that dont need CO2 kits and the like? Also plants that could cope well with a standard lighting unit that comes with the tank. I just want to start off with the easy to care for plants before i go more high tech in future tanks.

Also i'm using sand as the substrate, what should the depth be? also i heard you have to mix it around every week?

EDIT: Will it be ok to put the plants in during the cycle, or would it be better to put them in after?

All help is appreciated.
Thanks

 

[cheesy feet]

Cycling with plants is the best option ,it usually speeds up the process.In the deepest part the sand should be about 2-3inches inches deep.You don't have to swoosh around the sand every week ,more like every couple of months.Amazon swords,wisteria,vallis & luwidgia should all be ok in lowish light tanks.Java moss,java fern & anubias are all easy to care for plants which attach themselves to rock/wood.

 

[sparky_555]

Will i need to add anything to the water for the plants or is it just a case of putting them in the sand and leaving them?
Sorry for all the questions

Thanks

 

[cheesy feet]

Will i need to add anything to the water for the plants or is it just a case of putting them in the sand and leaving them?
Sorry for all the questions

Thanks

Root tabs would promote growth

 

[Maximumbob]

Cycling with plants is the best option ,it usually speeds up the process.

I have to disagree with this comment. The point of cycling a tank is to build up a bacterial colony within the biofiltermedia which is capable of dealing with the fish waste. If you do this with plants they will take up some of the waste prior to it reaching the filter. If anything this will delay the cycle of the aquarium.

IMHO the best way forward is to use some military style planning. Put in your nice nutrient rich substrate and fishless cycle the tank (prawns FTW).

Whe tank is cycled purchase the desired plants (i'm assuming you are using mailorder here for whatever specialist plants you want). Reserve the fish you want at your LFS. Have the hard decor - e.g. bogwood soaking whilst your tank cycles, or ready to be inserted and made safe for tank. When the plants arrive do a 98% (as much as you can really) water change. Your filter bacteria can survive for a few hours with no flow through it - keep your filter media wet. Now set up your tank decor and plants - get your water up to temperature and go get your fish.

This way you wil have adequate biological filtration which doesnt rely on plants. You can then (fish stress permitting) add/remove plants - change fast growers for slow etc without worrying (more than normal) about your water parameters.

As for setting up your tank - you mush balance light/co2/fertilisation. It is possible to make a low light tank with no co2 and fertilisation only via a nutricous substrate e.g ADA aquasoil. If you increase either the light/co2 or fertilisation you must increase the others to the same level. To start with I would suggest a low light tank with good substrate and build on it from there.

I have seen some board memebers with really nice low light setups detailed in their sigs. Java ferns and java moss and anubias spring to mind as good plants to start with.

My thoughts anyways

Max

ps. I have just re-read your post and you are keen to use sand - off the top of my head you can use a grey sand subtrate or if ts the lighter colour you are after the ada malaya substate is good

 

[sparky_555]

Would those 2 substrates be enough for the plants so i wouldnt need any soil beneath it?

 

[cheesy feet]

Cycling with plants is the best option ,it usually speeds up the process.

I have to disagree with this comment. The point of cycling a tank is to build up a bacterial colony within the biofiltermedia which is capable of dealing with the fish waste. If you do this with plants they will take up some of the waste prior to it reaching the filter. If anything this will delay the cycle of the aquarium.

-sorry i didn't really explain it,but people who densley plant there tank from the start usually don't go through the whole 3 week cycling process

When the plants arrive do a 98% (as much as you can really) water change.

-Why so much,it would be useful to have some 'mature' water .The good bacteria would take some time getting back in the water,so if you added fishes then they wouldn't be happy

 

[SuperColey1]

I think this is a little misleading.

The post prior to yours phrased it badly but there is a thinking that you don't need to cycle at all if you plant heavily from the outset as the plants do what the filter would do anyway. I suppose it all depends on the fishload.

I have about 45" in a 29G heavily planted and haven't had a fish die on me in months and have had many spawns of fry. This with a Fluval3Plus that I only clean every 3 or 4 weeks and is on minimum output!!

In fact some people would say you don't really need a filter if you are heavily planted, although we all do just in case.

I would start with the fast growing weds like Elodia Densa and Cabomba and stick a little Riccia or other floating plant on the surface just to take up any extra nutrient that is in there. Also Ludwigia and Hygrphylia Polysperma grow like the clappers.

My fastest growingplant these days (I dont have Cabomba or Elodia anymore is my Ludwigia Repens which I have to chop in half every week)

Andy

 

[Dave Spencer]

I have to disagree with this comment. The point of cycling a tank is to build up a bacterial colony within the biofiltermedia which is capable of dealing with the fish waste. If you do this with plants they will take up some of the waste prior to it reaching the filter. If anything this will delay the cycle of the aquarium.

The bacteria colony will only reduce once the plants are in and taking the majority of Ammonia and nitrites. A fishless cycle is a waste of time if someone is commited to a heavily planted tank.

Dave.

 

[sparky_555]

ok, i'm confused now
If i have plants then theres no need to cycle?

 

[Dave Spencer]

If you are keeping your tank low tech, then it is likely it will go through a cycle, but I am not entirely sure. My high tech with lots of fast growing stems never cycled.

Start the tank out with the plants and see whether it cycles or not. There is no point in cycling without the plants and possibly building up a bacteria colony that is going to reduce in size when the plants are added.

I would be interested to see what happens in a newly planted low tech.

Dave.

 

[sparky_555]

Thanks for the replies. As for my earlier question, would i be better off getting 1 of the 2 substrates MaximumBob suggested, or will the plants be ok with just play sand and the root tabs?

Thanks

 

[Maximumbob]

When the plants arrive do a 98% (as much as you can really) water change.

-Why so much,it would be useful to have some 'mature' water .The good bacteria would take some time getting back in the water,so if you added fishes then they wouldn't be happy

Bear In mind I am tailoring my advice to a person who has not set up a planted tank before. Imho fish health is paramount and appropriate filter bacteria would asure their good health. Obviously over time the plants would take this waste and the filter bacteria population would dwindle... but the fish would be safer imho.

Also, in reponse to the Q. about the large water change. After 3 or so weeks with rotting prawns in the water and no water changes I think its best to change all the water. The benificial bacteria we get in cycling the tank are not free floating - and therefore are only present in our decor, substrate and filter media. An interesting fact I only recently learned about!

As for the soils.... from what i can gather the onyx sand is a complete substrate, whereas you may need some ADA power sand for use with the ADA substrate. There is also an issue with some ADA substrate affecting your water chemistry.. but I think thats the dark one.. not the one i recommended.

At te end of the day.. you can go with play sand and root tabs... or go the other route. I have never yet heard anyone complain about buying the ADA soil In the long term the dedicated substrate would be more beneficial.. it just is a more expensice initial outlay.