Stunted Growth, Co2 Algae Etc

[coolie]

So I started DIY yeast CO2 about 4 - 5 weeks ago, and my hair algae problem started getting worse. It seems my hair algae is using all available CO2 and nutrients instead
of the plants. So following advice on here, I am dosing excel or whatever it's called which should kill the algae. That's been going 5 days.
The algae does seem to have stopped growing. I don't know whether it's diminished yet, or just because I spent half an hour pulling bits of it out.

Anyhow, I turned my attention to the plants and noticed that about the time they stopped growing anumber of shoots had formed (particularly on the elodea densa)
and these seemed to become stunted or stubby. I hope that these shoots will start to grow again as the algae dies but am becoming a litle impatient.

I am starting to wonder if there is any other deficiency in the tank, but I'm sure there is chalk in the tap water here so can't be calcium deficiency and I do add macro nutrients on an ad hoc basis.

Any ideas appreciated.

 

[Ps3Steveo]

Your problem points to low CO2, how big is your tank?

 

[coolie]

It's 240 litre. I have just ordered a diffuser for my DIY yeast set up. Someone on here told me to use a cigarette filter tip, which kinda works, but most of the bubbles escape through the surface.

 

[Ps3Steveo]

If I were you I'd go pressurised if your hearts set on CO2 injection, a tank that size wont get enough CO2 from yeast and you'll always have this problem returning, also you'll get fluctuations causing Black Brush Algae too eventually.

 

[coolie]

Thing is, most of the very good advice on here is to spend more and go more up market. In an ideal world everyone would have the best equipment. I think a lot of peopole, and I speak for myself, like to "test the water" and see what is REALLY necessary. I mean, when most people step foot in their local aquarium shop, they don't really expect to have to invest in half of what they end up doing, or fail miserably and give up. So... someone like me asks, I've got some lovely glossy coloured picture books from the 1970's with lots of planted tanks when there was no talk back then of co2 injection. Now there must be a way of getting results without CO2 - but it seems so elusive and difficult. And thus I have gone down this route of DIY CO2. Who knows, I'll be posting on here in a years time about my state of the art FE and you'll be saying, I told you so.

 

[Ps3Steveo]

LolI know what you mean mate, a fire extinguisher CO2 system would set you back the same amount in a year that you'd spend on yeast and sugar in DIY hence I mentioned it as the trouble DIY can cause can cost more in the long run too. I never say I told you so dude.

 

[SO19Firearms]

Don't forget if you don't want to use CO2 you can always reduce your lighting too. You just have to find what works for you.

 

[coolie]

I've never managed to re-obtain the rapid growth I had when I first put those brand new stem cuttings in the tank, when it was physically possible to see the new growth each day
with the naked eye.

It's been nearly three weeks and the dosing of excel seems to have stopped new growth of hair algae, and the algae seems to break up as you pull it out, so could be dying>? (it has
NOT turned red though), however, there is only slight growth of the plants if much at all.

Added some ferts this week, CO2 still running at a trickle.

 

[ian]

Just remember that those tanks in the 70s didn't have the light intensity that we have today, this is why they didn't use injected c02.

If your dosing excel, then you'll need to add some n and p,as well, it's best to dose daily as well, that way the plants get what they need. Just remember regular water changes if doing the above.

 

[coolie]

This is how I see the algae problem from bits i've picked up and my own thoughts, feel free to coment:

Plants need light, CO2 and nutrients to grow. In the natural environments, plants will settle and collonise areas where they happen to find the ideal conditions for their particuar reqirements. Algae on the other hand, is more opportunistic and will thrive where these things aren't in balance; it will thrive where there is high lighting and low co2, or high flow and therefore nutients but low co2.
and possibly areas with enough co2 but other parameters are incorrect for plants.
In the aquarium, adding nutrients (which could be as simple as a water change) to a tank with hair agae for example, the algae is better able to utilise the sudden onset of co2 and nutients and will use these quickly. The plants are slow to react to extra levels of either.
In short, the survival of plants is about finding a habitat suitable for them and surviving for the long haul, hair and beard algae is more of an opportunistic (or even parasitic) lifestyle, and will use up whatever it is given, to the detriment of the plants in a closed system.

 

[Ps3Steveo]

True, but all the algae is generally from ammonia, this can be from a cell or two breaking down as the CO2 they're getting isn't optimal so you might not see it but it happens, this causes certain types of algae depending on how the break down is created. In your case I would start dosing regularly as the plants are getting enough of something one day and too much the next and the day after not enough. If you keep it uniform and steady the plants will thrive. In the wild they're not contained in a tank that needs water changes, they're getting the flow of the river to give them a steady flow of nutrients and CO2 and anything that might create ammonia is washed away with the flow of the river/stream.

 

[coolie]

Can anyone recommend stopping CO2 bubbles escaping by catching them in an upturned glass jar? Would more gas dissolve into the water?

cheers

 

[Ps3Steveo]

Unless your using a diffuser made by UP then your always gonna get CO2 escaping and you cant really use them with yeast as it doesnt have enough pressure to run them. That's the problem with yeast as you can't quickly adjust the amount injected into the tank.

I'd go with SO19s idea and drop the lighting or get some pressurised in there.

 

[snazy]

I've never managed to re-obtain the rapid growth I had when I first put those brand new stem cuttings in the tank, when it was physically possible to see the new growth each day
with the naked eye.

Plants have the ability to store nutritients if they were previously well looked after and when moved to a tank with problems they can continue to grow up to a month until they exhaust all the stored nutritients from before and start needing more.