Stubborn Ammonia!

[matt_bex]

Hi all

Ive changed about 80% water two times in the last week, ive hovered the gravel at the same time, ive scrubbed the decorations and still cant get rid of the dreaded ammonia.

The level has been at 0.5 for a while now. I use API master test and presume this is quite accurate. My other levels are fine, Nitrite = 0, Nitrate = 10 (which is also quite high I think), PH= 7.6.

I feed them Tetra Prima once every other day and just enough to last 2 mins.

So what am I doing wrong? I feel like im causing unnecessary stress although they seem happy and not out of the ordinary.

Thanks in advance
Matt

 

[EllieJellyEllie]

What water conditioner do you use? Some cause false readings.

 

[Ch4rlie]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

Going to ask a couple of questions first before going any further with your tank water parameters.

First, is your tank cycled?
If so, how did you cycle the tank.

If unsure what I mean about cycling a tank, have a read of this.
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/421488-cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first/

A fully cycled tank and filter should always show 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite and some nitrate (usually up to 40ppm) is pretty normal.

Second, what is your stocking in your tank and also tank size might be helpful also.
Any live plants in your tank?

What puzzles me is your nitrate reading, are you fully following the nitrate test and really shaking the reagent solution bottle no.2?
The nitrate test can be inaccurate and could possibly be false reading.

By the way, nitrate reading of 10ppm is not high at all. In fact that would be pretty good, it's only when goes to 60ppm and above may start to be a concern but weekly water changes and live plants also help to control nitrate levels.

Edit : just remembered I forgot to mention, do also test your tap water for nitrate. This may be where your 10ppm nitrate is coming from.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

First, an observation. the good bacteria we want in a tank is not limited to the filter. It is all over a tank, especially the substrate. 0t is on the rocks, on the decor on the plants too. It is one thing to clean stuff to combat alga etc. , but one really should not be scrubbing everything and turning over the substrate as this will often cause a mini-cycle.
 
The next thing is your assumption about the accuracy of the hobby test kits is misplaced. This is especially true of the nitrate tests.
 
Then add to this that any dechlor which contains an ammonia detoxifier can cause false positives on ammonia kits- you usually see a .25 or .50 reading. Bear in mind that the ammonia bacs convert the stuff to nitrite, it is not common to have ammonia not followed by nitrite, yet you show none. This situation in a cycled tank is often sign that the ammonia readings are false. Please note I am assuming here that your tank was  cycled. If not then waht follows is not going to be real relevant.
 
In a cycled tank that is handling all the ammonia, one which has been cycled to 2 or 3 ppm, a mini spike showing .25 or .5 ppm should quickly vanish as the time to have more bacs is small in such cases. But, it can be even more short lived as the ammonia bacs do have the ability to increase the amount of ammonia they can process before they will need to reproduce.
 
Lastly, since it is the NH3 component of ammonia that does much of the harm, in your pH and an assumed temp. of 80F (about 27C), the amount of NH3 is .0128. Levels below .02 ppm are considered safe for almost anything in a tank.
 
So my advice would be not to clean anything more. Do not change additional water unless you actually see the ammonia rise. When you do change water,  if your are using Prime or other ammonia detoxifying dechlors, test fairly soon after you refill the tank:
 

 
A salicylate based kit can be used, but with caution. Under the conditions of a salicylate kit the ammonia-Prime complex will be broken down eventually giving a false reading of ammonia (same as with other products like Prime®), so the key with a salicylate kit is to take the reading right away.

from http/www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/Prime.html
 
Also, any more info you can provide would help- do you have live plants? How long is the tank running and stocked, What other additives are you using?

 

[shoulders]

what do you clean the filter sponge with tank water or tap water ?

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Ok- this is another urban aquarium myth- that chlorine or chloramine that may come out of ones tap will wipe out the bacteria if you clean your media in it. This is mostly not true.
 
Cloramines do not kill the bacteria, they basically put it to sleep until the chloramine is gone. This usually happens in water treatment when it breaks down into its two parts- chlorine and ammonia. The clorine dissipates but the ammonia is quickly taken up by the bacteria which wakes up when the chloramine breaks down. Chloramine drinking water treatments is known to encourage the growth of nitrifying bacteria in the delivery system pipes both public and those on the property owners side.
 
Cloramine is much much more harmful to your fish than the bacteria.
 
Chlorine is much more effective at killing the nitrifying bacteria. But there is a catch. The bacteria live in a bio-film which is attached to a hard surface (the bio-media in your filter for example). This bio-fim is a wonderful thing that protects the bacteria from a number of things that kill other bacteria not so fortunate. Research has indicates that chlorine take aboyt 39 times as long to penetrate the bio-film as does chloramine.
 
So for the amount of chlorine that would be in one's tap and the amount of time if would actually be in contact with one's media if you mere rinsed it an returned to the tank where ti would rapidly be diluted and then eventually evaporate out of the tank, it can't do much harm. However as it rinses out of the filter your fish will be exposed to some level for some amount of time.
 
Chlorine is way more harmful to your fish than the bacteria.
 
Despite all of the above, this doesn't mean there is 0 potential for any damage. You might harm some bacteria, so why take the risk. You have your media in the bucket and the phone rings of your child starts to cry and off you go leaving the media in a bucket of chlorinated water for a while.
 
Despite the fact that I use well water and do not use dechlor, I still rinse my media in tank water. I do this because I don't want to waste good water and the tank water is going out anyhow. Also, from late spring to early fall I try to dispose of as much of my tank water as possible on the lawn and plants around the house. Its great fertilizer.  Rinsing the media in it makes it more nourishing.