Stockinglist From A Seemingly Reputable Fishkeeping Book

[stanleo]

10gl South American Biotope that sounds very interesting and doable. 
 
I love the idea of biotopes and would like to have one 10gl from as many ares as possible and this book has some good idea but some of it contradics all that I have learned, for instense 
"Bringing together species from the same geographic region is called a biotope approach and it can make for some of the most interesting and authentic community. 
 
Top Swimmers
3 marbleb hatchetfish  (camefiella strigata)
Midswimmers
12 neon tetras
Bottom Dwellers
3 panda coys
1 clown pleco. 
 
This is far a ten gallon Amazon quiet pool Biotope. 
 
In my research, shouldn't hatchet fish need at least 6 and the same goes for the panda corys. And while not an active fish, the clown pleco grows to 5 inches and might wreck havak y on the aquascape and are poop machines. Am I right in my assessment of this list or did I miss something?
 
Thave other biotope suggestion and I like the idea of setting up different biotopes in 10 gallon tanks. Could an enormously rewarding project. 

 

[Ninjouzata]

I think you're right though not sure how destructive a clown pleco is. It still would need something bigger than a 10g though. I think all the others on that list are also best in 15g+ tanks.

 

[Byron]

May I ask the name of this book?  As the info while geographically correct is otherwise anything but accurate.
 
First, a technical point but still worth knowing.  Biotope strictly means that everything in the aquarium occurs in the same watercourse and would likely be found together if you went "fishing" there.  Substrate, wood/rock/branches, leaves, plant species and fish species.  I use the term geographic for my tanks that some might call "biotope" and this means you can have plant species and fish species that are native to the general area though they might not occur together, and the substrate and decor is again replicating what might be seen in the area.
 
To the fish species.  Yes, the hatchetfish need more, and more than six.  The Marble hatchetfish is the species Carnegiella strigata. which has two different forms (the pattern and colouration is slightly different).  The accepted four (recent studies suggest there may be more) species in Carnegiella are the smallest of the hatchetfishes (family Gasteropelecidae, which includes the genera Carnegiella, Gasteropelecus and Thoracocharax).  These fish do much better in larger groups; I would never have less than seven, and for the Carnegiella species more than this; you can mix species from the genus, they will shoal together.  But in small numbers they will be continually unsettled, which means stressed.  I would not put these species in a 10g, or even a 20g unless a 20g long tank.  While they are not active swimmers...they remain motionless except when feeding or interacting...they do need some space for the numbers.
 
Corys should have no less than five, but more is better.  A 10g can work for C.panda, five or six.  I have found this an especially social species; my group of five [I had six, one died early on] are together more frequently than any of the other fifteen or so species in two tanks, though C. duplicareus (often confused with C. adolfoi) do spend a lot of time together.
 
A 10g is not suitable for a pleco, as has been mentioned.  And neons could work, but this is crowding things.  Aside from this, neons and panda corys are a good match as both prefer cooler water, low to mid 70's F suits them well.
 
The other error here is the "quiet pool."  C. panda occur in flowing streams in the mountains, and they should have some water flow.  My group in the 115g are frequently right in the flow from the canister, which is very strong at one end of this tank because of my spotted woodcats living in the standing log that need this.  But this is the only cory species of about twelve in this tank that swim in this flow significantly; many of the others remain in the opposite end half of the tank.
 
Here are my 70g flooded Amazon forest tank and the 115g Amazon riverscape.  A newer project is the 29g Amazon lagoon, last photo, still a work in progress as it only has one species in it so far, a pencilfish Nannostomus trifasciatus.
 
Byron.

 

[stanleo]

Ok first off, WOW!!! I love your tanks.
 
And this was what I was thinking reading those suggested tanks in that book. They have a few others that sound wrong to me. The book is called "The 101 Best Tropical Fish" I hope I don't get in trouble for naming it but there does seem to be some major flaws in it. It lists marbled hatchetfish and says that the minimum tank size is 20gl but its okay in the biotope 10gl? And they don't list what kind of pH, temp or GH each fish requires but does go into detail about there diets and behavior. I guess I will just enjoy it for the pretty pictures.

 

[stanleo]

Its annoying that you find books and read them and do your research and get the wrong information and your pets suffer for it.

 

[Byron]

Thank you very much.
 
On the book, author is Kathleen Wood whose name is unknown to me, but the publisher is TFH whom one would expect to have reliably informative books.  But some of the information is very clearly inaccurate.
 
I like your project of several tanks for biotopes/geographic areas.  As a suggestion though, it might be better to use 15g tanks to get the additional length which can be a big difference.  I have a 10g that is home to my pygmy corys that are spawning like mad and I now have four generations together, plus I put Farlowella vitatta fry in now and then from the 70g to grow out.  Beside it is a 20g tall (normal) which is the same footprint of the 15g, and beside that is my 29g which would be the same footprint as a 20g long.  The 29g was the last in the photos I posted.  If I were embarking on a project like this, I would go with the 15g (or if you can the 20g long).  I had a 15g back in the 1980's and it was very serviceable.  You could buy a sturdy metal stand and have a couple rows of 15g tanks.  I've actually thought of this myself.
 
While we're on the subject, we are coming into the autumn season when deciduous trees begin losing leaves.  I strongly recommend you head out and collect a few sacks.  As you saw, I have leaves in the 29g, and some in the 115g.  I use them in the 33g Asian lagoon tank and especially in the 10g as they are absolutely the best fry food.  Oak and beech are often suggested, but I have also read of maple being used.  I have an oak tree in the back garden so a ready supply.  Leaves lying on the substrate are very common in South America, so a useful aquascaping tool as well as being a good anti-bacterial and food source.
 
Byron.

 

[stanleo]

Yeah I was thinking that ten gallon would be too small and the foot print would be too hard to work with. But 20 gallons could be doable. I don't have the space for this kind of project yet but I will do this some day. I have a couple questions though.

I like the idea of the leaf litter but you wouldn't call that a biotope if you use local leaves for the litter, right? Then you would call that a geographical? This is actually why I haven't done any kind of biotope. I think to be really authentic you should use substrate, wood, rocks, plants and fauna that all come from the specific river basin or lake that you are trying to create. And I have no idea where to get all that stuff. Fauna and even the flora would be simple enough to source but the other stuff I think would be very hard.

 

[Byron]

I like the idea of the leaf litter but you wouldn't call that a biotope if you use local leaves for the litter, right? Then you would call that a geographical? This is actually why I haven't done any kind of biotope. I think to be really authentic you should use substrate, wood, rocks, plants and fauna that all come from the specific river basin or lake that you are trying to create. And I have no idea where to get all that stuff. Fauna and even the flora would be simple enough to source but the other stuff I think would be very hard.
 

 
The principle behind a biotope or geographic tank is that we use readily available materials to replicate the habitat.  Wild caught fish are exported from many habitats, but it is extremely rare to find aquatic plants unless you collect them yourself or know someone who does.  If you were creating an angelfish habitat, you would likely use commercially-raised angelfish.  Most of us are not going to be visiting these habitats and bringing back buckets of sand or mud, bags of leaves, etc., so we use available materials to replicate as close as we can.  Play sand for instance resembles the sands in many Amazon streams, so visually you are getting the same thing, and sand is sand to the fish.  So if the habitat is one with dead leaves littering a substrate of mud, we would use sand and any suitable leaf we can find will work.  Same for wood, rock, etc.
 
I was reading an online article by Oliver Lucanus earlier today, describing "biotope" set-ups.  I need to revise my thinking, as "biotope" seems to be used interchangeably for geographic these days.  Oliver was mentioning combining fish from different rivers as a biotope, and he made the point that the geographic area such as Colombia was the criteria.  He is a fish collector with considerable experience and has produced videos which one can find online (Fluval sponsored some of these expeditions) and written articles and books, one being Amazon Below Water. so he has a vast knowledge of the subject.  He lives in Montreal and I have corresponded with him, but never met him.
 
Byron.

 

[stanleo]

You make a good point that I didn't think about. I have only been doing this hobby for 4 years so I still consider myself very much a novice. Even with animals, wild caught would be hard to find so it's still authentic with substrate that doesn't come from the region. Thanks for that. On the subject of wild caught fish what are your thoughts on it? I worry about the impact on wild populations if they are over harvested for the pet trade.

When using leaves like oak or maple how long can you leave them in the tank before they rot?

And I will be looking up Oliver Lucanus when I get off work tonight.

I appreciate you letting me pick your brain, Byron.

 

[Byron]

You make a good point that I didn't think about. I have only been doing this hobby for 4 years so I still consider myself very much a novice. Even with animals, wild caught would be hard to find so it's still authentic with substrate that doesn't come from the region. Thanks for that. On the subject of wild caught fish what are your thoughts on it? I worry about the impact on wild populations if they are over harvested for the pet trade.

When using leaves like oak or maple how long can you leave them in the tank before they rot?

And I will be looking up Oliver Lucanus when I get off work tonight.

I appreciate you letting me pick your brain, Byron.

 
You're welcome.  Though there is not much to pick these days...
 
All else being equal, I always prefer wild caught to commercially-raised fish.  For one thing, wild caught are healthier, at least they have been in my experience.  I do not know of any disease brought in with my wild fish, but with the commercially-raised I have three or four times had real serious protozoan that killed off many other fish.  I am stricter and longer in my quarantining of commercially-raised fish, and with good reason I believe.
 
The state of wild populations of ornamental fish is, and should be, a concern for all aquarists.  And while it is probably true that in some cases the ornamental fish industry may have detrimentally affected the species, there is no doubt at all but that the increasing development and destruction of natural habitats has caused far more losses and even extinctions of species.
 
There have been efforts to reverse this, but human greed does not respond favourably to habitat protection.  The construction of the large power dam on the Rio Xingu in SW Brazil will undoubtedly cause the extinction of many species of fish including some plecos that are only now being discovered.  And agricultural destruction of habitats in SE Asia are very disturbing.  There are laws now in some South American countries to restrict the collection of fishes to specific seasons so the wild populations will not be decimated, and programs to work with the aboriginal peoples to manage a sustainable industry around fish collection that provides them with a decent wage so they can live healthy lives have worked very well.  There was a program on TV a few months back about a community of forest people in the Amazon that were able to make a very good living for themselves by working as collectors of fish, and they understand the detriment of over-fishing and are careful never to reach this.  As one of them said, they want there to be just as many fish here next time they come to this area, and they know this will only be the case if they do not over-fish and only fish during certain times in the year.

 

[Byron]

Just realized I forgot to answer your leaves question.  It will take several weeks for dried leaves to begin to decompose.  Once they do, you can either take them out or leave them.  I do either, depending upon the tank.  Eventually they will completely disappear as they are broken down by snails and bacteria.
 
Leaves wil of course soften the water somewhat, and lower the pH.  In my tanks I certainly don't worry about this as I have all soft water fish.  The initial GH and KH will govern the extent to which these parameters may lower.
 
It is rather remarkable what an excellent food source dry leaves are for fry, and as other aquarists have noted, fry grow faster with dried leaves in the tank.  I couldn't find any food for the Farlowella fry until I tried leaves, and the pygmy cory fry are growing quite fast.
 
Byron.