Stocking Suggestions

[Deleted member 55926]

While I am cycling the tank, I have been trying to make a stocking plan. Don't know how relevant it is, but here's some details about the tank:

29 gallon (80cm x 35cm x 40cm = 31.5" x 13.8" x 15.7")
Fluval 3+ (just over 6x tank turnover per hour)
2-3mm gravel
Low tech plants
Sumatra driftwood
High pH tap water - around 7.8 - but haven't tested in the tank after plants and wood.


I was thinking:

6 Neons
6 Zebra Danios
1 Dwarf Gourami
4 Cherry Shrimp
1 African Dwarf Frog


And some questions:

1. I think gravel and substrate has taken up about 4 gallons worth of volume. Do you take this into account when stocking?
   
2. How do Dwarf Gouramis do on their own? I would like 2 but am not sure if the tank is big enough or if they'll get aggressive.
   
3. I was thinking about adding a couple of Bolivian Rams. Same question as the gouramis (tank space / aggression), and will they be OK in high pH water?
   
4. Are all these fish compatible? The gouramis or rams wouldn't get big enough to eat the little ones would they?
   
5. Are there any downsides to getting the frog? Are they messy?
   
6. Is this over-stocked / do I have room for more fish?
   
7. I would quite like a fish that would enjoy the bottom of the tank, resting on the plants, etc. Not really sure though, as everything I've looked at in the Fish Species Index seems to either grow too big, needs sand, is too messy, etc. Are there any small (1-2") bottom feeders that I could get just a couple of, that would be little hassle to look after?

 

[Wills]

Hi that stocking is pretty light for a 30g IMO, with the gravel and decor if you mean in respect to the inch per gallon rule this actually shows that rules flaws because it has never been set in stone if you should include or not. Some people do but I know more that dont, personaly I would treat this as 30g rather than 26g or even after the decor and filter displacement your down to 20g if you see what I mean...

I think you could add 2 dwarf gourami easily try to get a male and a female or 2 females, females have shorter dorsal fins than males. With the rams it should work there is enough room in the tank for them to get away from each other and typically the gourami will stay top and the rams bottom. So yeah you could try a pair of both IMO.

With the frog so far as I know there are no downsides, you could maybe get a trio or 4 as far as I know they prefer groups. The only problem you see commonly reported with them in community tanks is the difficulty to get food to them as the fish will usually out compete them.

Just one note on your stocking and this is just personal preference but have you thought about having one large school of danio or neons like 15 of one species? It will look really natural and they will school all together, also there is a debate around at the moment of keeping zebra danio in small schools and the results of the confusing hierarchy which can lead to deaths. I can vouch for this first hand I had a school of 15 zebra danio and in under a year they dwindled to 3 so just a heads up on that but on the other side I know there are some people that will tell you that is just rubbish and they are fine so it is 50/50 IMO with them.

For your bottom dwellers how about a small/medium plec or two? There are quite a few nice plecs that get to about 3-4 inches that will do really well in your tank I think. L204 the flash pleco is nice and a group of them would be very nice in there The only others I can think of are cories and pygmy chain loaches or khuli loaches but like you said they are usually advised with sand rather than gravel is swapping to sand totally out of the question?

I think if it were me I would stock something like

2 Dwarf Gourami or 2 Honey or 1 Rusty Thick Lipped (personally I would go for the latter its a bit bigger more peaceful and better breeding stock, some dwarf gourami are quite weak due to mass breeding)
2 Bolivian Rams
15 Neon Tetras
6 Cherry Shrimp (though depending on your rams these could just be a snack)
4 ADF
1 L204
1 L333 (king tiger plec)

Its quite a heavy stock but with regular weekly water changes you should be good to go

Hope thats helped Wills

PS if you want to have a look for other plecs suitable for your tank this is the planetcatfish library http/www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/numbers.php?mode=l&thumbs=16&start=240&genus_id=0

 

[KittyKat]

While I am cycling the tank, I have been trying to make a stocking plan. Don't know how relevant it is, but here's some details about the tank:

29 gallon
Fluval 3+ (just over 6x tank turnover per hour)
2-3mm gravel
Low tech plants
Sumatra driftwood
High pH, around 8

Very useful information, can you give us the dimensions too please?

I was thinking:

6 Neons
6 Zebra Danios
1 Dwarf Gourami
4 Cherry Shrimp
1 African Dwarf Frog

Your pH is a wee bit high for the neons, I suggest the following:
6 Harlequin rasboras
6 Zebra Danios (I don't like them, so would have another 4 Harlequins instead)
2 Dwarf Gourami (a male and female)
6 Cherry Shrimp (but personally would have 3-4 Khuli loaches, if going for a larger school of harlequins)
1 African Dwarf Frog

And some questions:

I think gravel and substrate has taken up about 4 gallons worth of volume. Do you take this into account when stocking?

Stocking is on a per surface area or per water volume basis is, strictly speaking, not a very good way of doing it. My personal advice for anyone new to the hobby is, start with few fish and get more gradually, watching their behaviour, filter ability to handle them etc.

How do Dwarf Gouramis do on their own? I would like 2 but am not sure if the tank is big enough or if they'll get aggressive.

Mine did better as a pair. When one of them died, the other became quite depressed on its own.

I was thinking about adding a couple of Bolivian Rams. Same question as the gouramis (tank space / aggression), and will they be OK in high pH water?

Male and female pair again. They deal with high pH better then many SA cichlids, but you really should try lowering that pH.. Add more bogwood and do not pre-soak/boil it? Add more plants? I would not call the rams compatible with the frog tho.

Are all these fish compatible? The gouramis or rams wouldn't get big enough to eat the little ones would they?

The fish will not eat each other, but those two might poke at the shrimp, and personally I wouldn't mix the shrimp with rams.

Are there any downsides to getting the frog? Are they messy?

Not that I know of, you should wait for someone else on this one.

Is this over-stocked / do I have room for more fish?

Good starting point, but I would not add any more fish for a while, until the tank has settled in and then would judge the number on how well the current ones are doing.

I would quite like a fish that would enjoy the bottom of the tank, resting on the plants, etc. Not really sure though, as everything I've looked at in the Fish Species Index seems to either grow too big, needs sand, is too messy, etc. Are there any small (1-2") bottom feeders that I could get just a couple of, that would be little hassle to look after?

Corys suit that, otherwise look at a pair of Bristlenose plecos.. I suggested above some Khuli loaches, but they will most definitely not "rest"! Corys and Khulis both require a sandy substrate though, so a pair of BNs might be best.

 

[Deleted member 55926]

have you thought about having one large school of danio or neons like 15 of one species? [...] also there is a debate around at the moment of keeping zebra danio in small schools and the results of the confusing hierarchy which can lead to deaths. I can vouch for this first hand I had a school of 15 zebra danio and in under a year they dwindled to 3

I would like 2 different schools, as I thought this would be more interesting, but having no experience I don't really know how this will influence them. Would the two schools tend to separate? Will there be any competition between the 2 species?

About the danio issue - if your 15 dwindled to 3, is 15 still considered a small school?!

 

[Deleted member 55926]

Your pH is a wee bit high for the neons.

I suggest the following:

6 Harlequin rasboras
6 Zebra Danios (I don't like them, so would have another 4 Harlequins instead)
2 Dwarf Gourami (a male and female)
6 Cherry Shrimp (but personally would have 3-4 Khuli loaches, if going for a larger school of harlequins)
1 African Dwarf Frog

Oh noes... me and the girlfriend really had our hearts set on neons. I really like the brighter coloured or patterened fish, and don't find [what I would call] more 'standard' silver fish, such as the rasboras, that interesting (they don't seem as exotic, and remind me of when I used to go fishing and catch minnows in the river!). I did really like the khuli loaches that I have seen. However, I'm worried they'll grow to something like 4", which seems quite big, and also I don't think my gravel is suitable. I didn't really want to get sand. I'll have a look at bristlenose plecs.

I have added some more info on the tank, and I didn't mention that it is the tap water that is pH 8, but have yet to test the tank after adding plants and wood, as I am still cycling. I hope it will come down slightly.

 

[Wills]

have you thought about having one large school of danio or neons like 15 of one species? [...] also there is a debate around at the moment of keeping zebra danio in small schools and the results of the confusing hierarchy which can lead to deaths. I can vouch for this first hand I had a school of 15 zebra danio and in under a year they dwindled to 3

I would like 2 different schools, as I thought this would be more interesting, but having no experience I don't really know how this will influence them. Would the two schools tend to separate? Will there be any competition between the 2 species?

About the danio issue - if your 15 dwindled to 3, is 15 still considered a small school?!

I think mine might have been an exception but its becoming more common IMO with more people reporting it happening in smaller schools. If you get 2 schools each will interact separately for most of the time, food competition would really matter as come feeding its every fish for them selves. But obviously a larger school will mimic their natural behavior better as in the wild they are often found in schools of hundreds so six becomes a minimum in aquariums. But as the saying goes minimum requirements means minimum enjoyment.

I think what Kitty said about the Ph is true have to admit I missed that however bolivan rams are often home bred so if you can find ones that have bred localy to you they should work. With the neons if you get some good stock and do whats called "drip acclimatisation" it might work out or if you can find a group that has been in an LFS for a while and have adapted well they could be an option.

 

[KittyKat]

Oh noes... me and the girlfriend really had our hearts set on neons. I really like the brighter coloured or patterened fish, and don't find [what I would call] more 'standard' silver fish, such as the rasboras, that interesting (they don't seem as exotic, and remind me of when I used to go fishing and catch minnows in the river!). I did really like the khuli loaches that I have seen. However, I'm worried they'll grow to something like 4", which seems quite big, and also I don't think my gravel is suitable. I didn't really want to get sand. I'll have a look at bristlenose plecs.

I have added some more info on the tank, and I didn't mention that it is the tap water that is pH 8, but have yet to test the tank after adding plants and wood, as I am still cycling. I hope it will come down slightly.

Not the end of the world, just try to lower the pH before you get the neons then. Do you live in an area where you can collect unpolluted rainwater on a regular basis? If you can, try using 50/50 tap/rainwater mix when doing water changes, and that might work. What is your tap pH (after letting the water stand for 24 hours)? One thing I would recommend avoiding is pH buffers/adjusters, they are not a long term solution and can make your tank crash.

This is where size is deceptive: Khulis may get to 4 inches long, but they are like snakes, long and thin.. they can easily roll up into something golf ball sized!

So have a look at plecos then, Bristlenoses are just one option.. also look at mustart spots and gold nuggets, but avoid common or sailfin plecos.

 

[Wills]

Or an rasbora I am guessing you have not seen for its colours the chilli rasbora!! Awesome bright red and black fish. How about cherry barbs, hikari yellow danio, black ruby barbs Plenty of colour from the asian waters

Also just one thing Kitty Kat gold nuggets, there are 3 commonly traded fish with this name all similar and hard to tell apart sometimes, some max out at 8 with an average of 6 inches but others get to 12 inches and all are quite a territorial plec

Wills

 

[Deleted member 55926]

Not the end of the world, just try to lower the pH before you get the neons then. Do you live in an area where you can collect unpolluted rainwater on a regular basis? If you can, try using 50/50 tap/rainwater mix when doing water changes, and that might work. What is your tap pH (after letting the water stand for 24 hours)?

Rainwater is not an option, as discussed in my log http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/312390-migthegreek-fishless-cycle-log

Or an rasbora I am guessing you have not seen for its colours the chilli rasbora!! Awesome bright red and black fish. How about cherry barbs, hikari yellow danio, black ruby barbs Plenty of colour from the asian waters

Will check them out; thanks.

 

[Deleted member 55926]

Checked my tap water again last night and it was about 7.8 so it seems there may be some fluctuations. I will test regularly to get an idea of what it is on average and how much it changes.

 

[james_fish]

Despite my unexperiance, i would suggest some dalmation mollies. I have 4 at the minute, and they are right lively little buggers. They are real characters. They have many babys and even if you don't want the babys they will eat them. So its a win-win on that front.

The best thing is they are real hard, mine have survived thick and thin, theyre real warriors!

James

 

[Truck]

did you test the PH of the tap water straight out of the tap? if so, you will get a false reading, as the water company injects CO2 into the water, which brings the Ph down, they do this as it helps prolong the life of the pipes.

a half RO/tap mix will give you about 7.5 if your normal PH is 8.

If you don't want to adjust the PH then your going to have to choose species carefully, lake tanginykan cichlids are a good choice.

 

[arobinson1984]

If you are wanting to keep neons you really need to get the PH below 7.

If you are wanting a colourful shoaling fish, how about endlers?

Personally I prefer 1 larger shoal then 2 smaller different shoals. A larger shoal can become the 'centrepiece' of a tank. Its all down to personal preference.

If it was my tank Id go:

2 Bolivian Rams
2 Dwarf / Honey gourami OR 4-5 sparkling gourami OR 1 x pearl gourami
12 endlers
6 Sterbai Corys OR 1 BN plec

Andy

 

[natalie265]

I think your stocking sound good.

Here's what i'd do:

10-12 neon tetras OR 8-9 zebra danios
2 dwarf (or honey) gouramis OR 2 bolivian rams
6 cherry shrimp
3 african dwarf frogs
6 corys (a great little bottom dweller)

As others have suggested, you can use 1/2 RO water to get your ph down a bit. It has worked great for me and my fish.

 

[Deleted member 55926]

I will take your general advice and stick with one shoal, so here is my intended stocking plan for now.

12 Neon Tetras
2 Dwarf Gouramis
6 Red Cherry Shrimp
3 African Dwarf Frogs
1 Bristlenose Pleco

My qustion is what order do I add these fish? Do I stagger the stocking, and which fish should go in first, and which will adapt better if they come in at a later stage?