Stocking Levels

[stormy78]

Well the tank seems to be getting along fine at the moment with both Ammonia and Nitrite showing 0.00ppm for the 3rd day in a row with Nitrate at around 20>, now I need to work out how much stock I can add without exceding a healthy level within the tank.

The tank is a Trigon 190, 190L with about 160/170L useable. I intend on doing a 25% water change weekely.

Current stock (Where they tend to be):

3 Apistogramma Cacatouides (Bottom to middle of tank)
3 Apistogramma Borelli (Bottom to middle of tank)
17 Rummy Nose Tetra's (I wanted 15 but got 2 for free!) (Middle of tank)
4 Amano shrimps (anywhere with algea )
5 Small cherry shrimps (anywhere with algea including the filter!)

I was thinking of adding 1 or 2 groups (not all of them!) off the list below. What, in your opinion could I add safely (take it that if it is Cardinals/Oto's I will leave the tank to mature for a few months) or am I alrady stocked?

12 Cardinal Tetra's (Generally middle of tank)
12 Black Widow Tetra's (Generally middle to top of tank)
6 Corys (Generally Bottom of tank)
4 Oto's (anywhere with algea)

 

[Miss Wiggle]

well you're definatley not fully stocked that's for sure, got room for some more fishies but not straight away.

You have to remember that a tank being cycled means that the rate of ammonia consumption is equal to the rate of ammonia production. It's a supply and demand thing, the bacteria colony at the end of a cycle was able to support a fully stocked tank producing up to 5ppm of ammonia a day. Now you're partly stocked some of the bacteria will have died off meaning that the filter can now only support a smaller amount of ammonia. Because the tank is newly cycled the bacteria colony is neither stable or mature and as such it can't increase it's size as quickly as a mature filter. You now need to have some patience (yes i know, this hobby needs a lot of it!!) and leave the stocking alone for maybe 2/3 months so the bacteria colony can establish, after this time you can make additions without upsetting the balance, if you went and added a load more fish now you'd un-do all your hard work cycling and end up with a fish-in-cycle.

One of the main benefits of a fishless cycle is that you can fully stock the tank afterwards (or at least reasonably fully stock it) and you should take advantage of that as if you don't then you get this situation where you have to leave things to stabilise before adding more fish.

 

[stormy78]

Cheers MW.

 

[stormy78]

well you're definatley not fully stocked that's for sure, got room for some more fishies but not straight away.

You have to remember that a tank being cycled means that the rate of ammonia consumption is equal to the rate of ammonia production. It's a supply and demand thing, the bacteria colony at the end of a cycle was able to support a fully stocked tank producing up to 5ppm of ammonia a day. Now you're partly stocked some of the bacteria will have died off meaning that the filter can now only support a smaller amount of ammonia. Because the tank is newly cycled the bacteria colony is neither stable or mature and as such it can't increase it's size as quickly as a mature filter. You now need to have some patience (yes i know, this hobby needs a lot of it!!) and leave the stocking alone for maybe 2/3 months so the bacteria colony can establish, after this time you can make additions without upsetting the balance, if you went and added a load more fish now you'd un-do all your hard work cycling and end up with a fish-in-cycle.

One of the main benefits of a fishless cycle is that you can fully stock the tank afterwards (or at least reasonably fully stock it) and you should take advantage of that as if you don't then you get this situation where you have to leave things to stabilise before adding more fish.

Actually MW, what would you say my stocking levels would be after a few months of the tank maturing?

 

[Miss Wiggle]

what do you mean? how many fish can you put in after it's stabilised for a few months?

what I advise you work to is as follows

You're currently sitting around three quarters" per us gallon, keep it like this for a few months.

after 2/3 months you can gradually start adding more fish and raise it up to the full 1" per gallon. just add a small group of fish, then wait a couple of weeks, add another small group etc while continually monitoring ammonia and nitrite levels.

once the tank has been running (assuming trouble free) for about 6 months you can push up a little above that, maximum of 1 and a half" per gallon.

beyond that point it's a bit more intuative, you need to look at the bio load and nitrate production to see if the tank can handle more fish. some people will push stocking up to 2" per gallon, I tend to stick around 1.5 but it's not an exact science.

 

[backtotropical]

Hi Stormy,

I agree entirely with Miss Wiggle.

The benefit of the fishless cycle is retained by stocking as much as possible (within reasonable limits of course) at the outset. You, quite correctly, didn't stock as much as you could have because the fish you want to stock require a mature set-up and wouldn't have faired well in your newly cycled tank.

You have a nice stock of fish at the moment, and i would agree that you should leave your tank to mature for at least 2 - 3 months now before adding any new stock.

With regard to final stocking capacity, as Miss Wiggle says, around 1" per gallon is recommended for beginners and up to 2" per gallon for experienced hobbyists. There are exceptions and this rule is a guide rather than the definitive article. Stocking a tank is more of an art than a science. So far you have shown your artistic side, so well done!

The only thing i would add to Miss Wiggle's post is that it depends a lot on your filtration. If you want to stock over 1.5" per gallon, i would suggest that your tank should be over-filtered.

My main tank is over-filtered by around 3 times by 2 large canister filters and i can subsequently stock to around 3" per gallon without issue, but i wouldn't recommend it for anyone who is unsure. The trouble really starts when you have a power cut and the filter packs in....................

Remind me, what filtration are you using?

Cheers

BTT

 

[Miss Wiggle]

yes i quite agree BTT, I should have mentioned filtration.

practically perfect...... evidently not quite there today!!!! LMAO

 

[stormy78]

what do you mean? how many fish can you put in after it's stabilised for a few months?

what I advise you work to is as follows

You're currently sitting around three quarters" per us gallon, keep it like this for a few months.

after 2/3 months you can gradually start adding more fish and raise it up to the full 1" per gallon. just add a small group of fish, then wait a couple of weeks, add another small group etc while continually monitoring ammonia and nitrite levels.

once the tank has been running (assuming trouble free) for about 6 months you can push up a little above that, maximum of 1 and a half" per gallon.

beyond that point it's a bit more intuative, you need to look at the bio load and nitrate production to see if the tank can handle more fish. some people will push stocking up to 2" per gallon, I tend to stick around 1.5 but it's not an exact science.

Thanks MW, thats exactly what I was after!

 

[stormy78]

Hi Stormy,

I agree entirely with Miss Wiggle.

The benefit of the fishless cycle is retained by stocking as much as possible (within reasonable limits of course) at the outset. You, quite correctly, didn't stock as much as you could have because the fish you want to stock require a mature set-up and wouldn't have faired well in your newly cycled tank.

You have a nice stock of fish at the moment, and i would agree that you should leave your tank to mature for at least 2 - 3 months now before adding any new stock.

With regard to final stocking capacity, as Miss Wiggle says, around 1" per gallon is recommended for beginners and up to 2" per gallon for experienced hobbyists. There are exceptions and this rule is a guide rather than the definitive article. Stocking a tank is more of an art than a science. So far you have shown your artistic side, so well done!

The only thing i would add to Miss Wiggle's post is that it depends a lot on your filtration. If you want to stock over 1.5" per gallon, i would suggest that your tank should be over-filtered.

My main tank is over-filtered by around 3 times by 2 large canister filters and i can subsequently stock to around 3" per gallon without issue, but i wouldn't recommend it for anyone who is unsure. The trouble really starts when you have a power cut and the filter packs in....................

Remind me, what filtration are you using?

Cheers

BTT

Hi BTT, its the standard internal filter fitted on the Juwel Trigon tanks. It has the Juwel 600 pump, which it claims cycles 600 Liters of water per hour. So does this mean it is already over filtered or is just right? Whats the ratio between Liters per hours and tank capcity?

With hindsight I would have gone external but.... there you go...

 

[Miss Wiggle]

normally the standard internal filters you get with tanks like the juwels aren't brilliant, I would definatley not advise stocking to 2" per gallon with just the standard internal.

All filter manufacturers are a bit optomistic, when you buy a filter it'll say rated for tanks up to XX gallons. You'll want to get a filter that's rated for a tank half as big again as yours. So your tanks 190l instead of buying a filter which say's capacity of 190l you really want a filter rated for around 285l

You'll also hear people talk about filters in terms of tank turnover, to take an example with easy maths if you have a 100l tank and you get a filter that does 1000lph that gives you 10x tank turnover. You only need that much in specialist set up's such as marine tanks though, I can't remember exactly what is advised for standard community tanks but I'd assume around 5x tank turnover.

 

[stormy78]

normally the standard internal filters you get with tanks like the juwels aren't brilliant, I would definatley not advise stocking to 2" per gallon with just the standard internal.

All filter manufacturers are a bit optomistic, when you buy a filter it'll say rated for tanks up to XX gallons. You'll want to get a filter that's rated for a tank half as big again as yours. So your tanks 190l instead of buying a filter which say's capacity of 190l you really want a filter rated for around 285l

You'll also hear people talk about filters in terms of tank turnover, to take an example with easy maths if you have a 100l tank and you get a filter that does 1000lph that gives you 10x tank turnover. You only need that much in specialist set up's such as marine tanks though, I can't remember exactly what is advised for standard community tanks but I'd assume around 5x tank turnover.

Mmmmm so the internal filter in place is only giving me a smidge over 3 time turnover.... not good I dont know how I could fit an external filter in the future due to the back grounds used in the tank, I guess they only way would be to put them in the Black filter box Juwel provide but I cant see how that would work?!?

 

[Miss Wiggle]

you could add another internal filter to supplement yours.

yes you have about 3x turnover, this may be enough for a normal stocking though, i can never remember the recommended turnovers so hopefully someone else will chip in with some better news!!

 

[stormy78]

you could add another internal filter to supplement yours.

yes you have about 3x turnover, this may be enough for a normal stocking though, i can never remember the recommended turnovers so hopefully someone else will chip in with some better news!!

Unfortunatly there is no where to add an addiontional filter due to the backgrounds that have been fitted. I know Juwel do a 1000 Pump head, these would mean just over 5 times turnover but I'm not sure if it will fit the Filter box in a Trigon 190?!? Anyone tried this?

 

[Miss Wiggle]

ah yes i forgot you've got the structured background on haven't you.

not sure what to suggest really, either just accept the filtration capacity of the tank and stock accordingly or have a hunt for an inventive way of filtering, could look into something like a HOB filter.

 

[stormy78]

I will see how it goes when I add additional stock in a few months and if its a problem it may be a case of strip the tank down and remove the back grounds. I have a 3ft tank on the way for emergenices so if the time comes where I need better filtration I can move the fish/shrimps for a day or so while I remove the backgrounds and the old internal filter, next time around I'm definatly going for an external filter!