Stock Confirmation

[Notsofab]

I am about to start stocking my new 180 litre Hex tank. You can see what it looks like here if you like :
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=116407

After weeks of research, I have come up with the following stock list:

3 x Balloon Molly's ( 2F/1M )
3 x Dwarf Gourami's
2 x Angel Fish
7 x Rummynose Tetra's ( or similar shape/size Tetra )
2 x Rams
3 x Peppered Cory's

plus either
2 x small 3" Pleco's ( Zebra's - I wish !!! )
or
1 x 6" Pleco

The list has been designed to fill all regions of this tall tank. I would love to know what you all think about these choices and if there is anything I haven't considered with this list of fish.

If I added 2 or 3 shrimps, would this affect the bioload too much???

I'd also like to say a massive THANK YOU to ModernHamlet who very kindly helped me with this list.
Cheers ModernHamlet

 

[rdd1952]

Great looking tank. I missed the other post when you first did it. The only problem I can see is that based on the adult sizes, you would be overstocked a little with everything you want, especially if you get a common pleco. What type filtration do you have? The pleco will also out grow the tank pretty quickly (unless you mean a dwarf pleco that only grows to 6"). As for the shrimp, they generally aren't a factor on the bio load but they may become food for either the angels or maybe the rams.

Also, I see that you already have the corys and 2 mollys in the tank. Go slow with adding new fish as you will get mini cycles every time you add more and blue rams and angel fish are somewhat delicate and need good water conditions.

 

[Notsofab]

Great looking tank. I missed the other post when you first did it. The only problem I can see is that based on the adult sizes, you would be overstocked a little with everything you want, especially if you get a common pleco. What type filtration do you have? The pleco will also out grow the tank pretty quickly (unless you mean a dwarf pleco that only grows to 6"). As for the shrimp, they generally aren't a factor on the bio load but they may become food for either the angels or maybe the rams.

Also, I see that you already have the corys and 2 mollys in the tank. Go slow with adding new fish as you will get mini cycles every time you add more and blue rams and angel fish are somewhat delicate and need good water conditions.

Thanks for the feedback. My filter is an external TetraTec EX700 which according to the manual pumps 700 litres an hour ( and I must say it is soooooo quiet ).

I was talking about a Dwarf Pleco. I really wanted 2 Zebra Plecos (3" each ) but I have seen they sell for about $250 each - so I'll cross those of the list.

The 2 Molly's and the 3 Cory's were included in the stock list - they aren't additional. They're not actually in the tank yet, they are in the old tank.

I'm still considering using Bactinettes to cycle this tank - hence why I needed to work out the full stock list before I started. But this will depend heavily on my LFS agreeing to take the fish back temporarily if I find the Bactinettes don't work as stated and I get a huge Ammonia spike !

 

[rdd1952]

It sounds like you are probably underfiltered. The general minimum is turning the water 5 times per hour which would be 900ltr per hour. You may need to look into another filter, especially with a full to lightly overstocked tank. As for Bactinette, I'm not familir with it. I would suggest a fishless cycle but it does take a few weeks.

 

[Notsofab]

It sounds like you are probably underfiltered. The general minimum is turning the water 5 times per hour which would be 900ltr per hour. You may need to look into another filter, especially with a full to lightly overstocked tank. As for Bactinette, I'm not familiar with it. I would suggest a fishless cycle but it does take a few weeks.

The LFS who sold me the tank also sold me the filter with it. They said it would be more than adequte with my tank. Also the filter manual states that it is recommended for aqauriums between 100 and 250 litres.

I understand how important cycling the tank is before adding fish. That said, the LFS said they use Bactinettes to setup all their tanks from scratch. So I'm thinking that I'd like to try them out. As the LFS has recommended them too me, I think they have to be prepared to take some responsibility, especially as I'll be buying nearly £70 worth of fish from them.

My aim is to negotiate a deal, whereby they take all the fish back if I start to get an Ammonia spike shortly after adding the fish. If that happens the Bactinettes clearly have not done what they claim to do and I would expect back the money I paid for the product. I'd then have to do a fishless cycle.

One things for sure. I'm sure as hell not going down the cycling with fish route again! If the LFS are not prepared to 'guarantee' the Bactinettes, then I'll do a fishless cycle as documented on this site.

Two questions about a fishless cycle - once the cycle is complete you should stock the tank with 75% of its intended bio load ( ........ I'm sure I read that in the articles somewhere ). Why doesn't a fishless cycle prepare the tank for it's full bio load? If it relates to the amount of Ammonia used to start the cycle, couldn't this be increased to say 7ppm from 5ppm to fully cycle the tank?

Also, so the cycle completes and you add your 75% bio load. You leave it 2 weeks then add your next fish. As your filter has been seeded to support the 75% load, wouldn't the addition of more fish start a mini cycle?

 

[rdd1952]

The LFS who sold me the tank also sold me the filter with it. They said it would be more than adequte with my tank. Also the filter manual states that it is recommended for aqauriums between 100 and 250 litres.

I looked the filter up and it does say that but anything that filters the water less than 5 times per hour is underfiltering. Keep in mind, the LFS is there to "SELL" you stuff. Unless you know them well and shop there all the time, they will do whatever it takes to sell the product.

I understand how important cycling the tank is before adding fish. That said, the LFS said they use Bactinettes to setup all their tanks from scratch. So I'm thinking that I'd like to try them out. As the LFS has recommended them too me, I think they have to be prepared to take some responsibility, especially as I'll be buying nearly £70 worth of fish from them.

My aim is to negotiate a deal, whereby they take all the fish back if I start to get an Ammonia spike shortly after adding the fish. If that happens the Bactinettes clearly have not done what they claim to do and I would expect back the money I paid for the product. I'd then have to do a fishless cycle.

One things for sure. I'm sure as hell not going down the cycling with fish route again! If the LFS are not prepared to 'guarantee' the Bactinettes, then I'll do a fishless cycle as documented on this site.

Same as above, they may just be trying to sell you the product. I would almost bet that if they do have seperate tanks set up and running on individual filters that they simply take a filter from an established tank and start a new one. The tank is basically instantly cycled since technically, it is the filter that is cycled, not the tank. If you can work out that deal, then it might be worth a try but you could still end up losing fish.

Two questions about a fishless cycle - once the cycle is complete you should stock the tank with 75% of its intended bio load ( ........ I'm sure I read that in the articles somewhere ). Why doesn't a fishless cycle prepare the tank for it's full bio load? If it relates to the amount of Ammonia used to start the cycle, couldn't this be increased to say 7ppm from 5ppm to fully cycle the tank?

Also, so the cycle completes and you add your 75% bio load. You leave it 2 weeks then add your next fish. As your filter has been seeded to support the 75% load, wouldn't the addition of more fish start a mini cycle?

Actually, if you do a good fishless cycle, you should be able to add your full fish load all at once. Sometimes that is a little difficult to do if your looking for hard to find species but if you have to leave a few out, it shouldn't be a major problem once you do add them. You will get a small mini cycle but it won't last long. Click the "Please do a fishless cycle" link in my signature for 2 methods of fishless cycling.

 

[Notsofab]

I looked the filter up and it does say that but anything that filters the water less than 5 times per hour is underfiltering. Keep in mind, the LFS is there to "SELL" you stuff. Unless you know them well and shop there all the time, they will do whatever it takes to sell the product.

But that doesn't make any sense at all. Surely it was in the LFS interests to sell me an over powered filter that would have undoubtably cost me more, than to sell me a cheaper under capacity filter that wont do the job?? Afterall, I had just spent £700 on a custom made tank so I'd obviously be willing to pay £200 - £250 for an over powered filter wouldn't I? All that will happen now is I will complain in the shop. They will show me the manual and manufacturers specifications, then tell me not to believe everything you read on the internet.

Afterall, why manufacture a filter and state capabilities that the product cannot deliver. That must be the quickest way to lose customers, get negative product reviews and generally damage your companies reputation.

It is a breach of the trade descriptions act to mis-represent your product.

What exactly do you mean by under filtering? What effect will this have long and short term on my tank?

 

[rdd1952]

If you are underfiltered, it means you aren't cleaning the water often enough. It also means that the water containing ammonia and nitrite aren't passing through the filter often enough to allow the bacteria in the filter to break down the toxins. You can probably survive being underfiltered but you will have to really stay on top of the maintanence program and clean a minimum of once a week.

As for why they sold you that filter, they may have just not known but they also may have sold it to you knowing you would have to upgrade and buy another one. I don't know the people that work there so it's hard to say what their intentions are. It may also be that the TetraTec filter is the highest profit margin filter they had and even though it was less expensive than some others, it made them the most money.

 

[@ombomb]

Actually I think the flow rate of the filter would be fine, although I can't vouch for the quality of the filter itself.

 

[Notsofab]

If you are underfiltered, it means you aren't cleaning the water often enough. It also means that the water containing ammonia and nitrite aren't passing through the filter often enough to allow the bacteria in the filter to break down the toxins. You can probably survive being underfiltered but you will have to really stay on top of the maintanence program and clean a minimum of once a week.

As for why they sold you that filter, they may have just not known but they also may have sold it to you knowing you would have to upgrade and buy another one. I don't know the people that work there so it's hard to say what their intentions are. It may also be that the TetraTec filter is the highest profit margin filter they had and even though it was less expensive than some others, it made them the most money.

I am sorry but I still don't understand how you can say I am underfiltered? Forget the LFS, I think maybe you are a little too sceptical about all fish shops (....bare in mind this has come from a dedicated Aquarium shop in the UK ..... not a Pet Smart ). The manufacturer of my filter clearly states that is suitable for aqauriums between 100-250 litres. Why would they state that if it wasn't the case?

So now I'm panicing because of what you are saying. Afterall I've spent nearly £1000 getting this tank setup so I think I've got a right to be a little pee'd off. So I go back to the web seeking confirmation either way. Please take a look at this link to the Eheim website:
http/www.eheim.com/faq.html#question5
Just picking one example, their 2213 filter is suitable for a 66US gallon tank, yet it only has a pump output of 116US gallons per hour This is generally true for all of the filters on the list. There is no filter listed that will filter the total water volume more than 3 times per hour in the given suitable aqaurium.
So are ALL filter manufacturers lying as well as my LFS???

 

[kris-b-]

Chill out dude people are only trying to help you

This is why there are things such as forums on the net so that you can get peoples opinions on things but please don't get annoyed when people are trying to help you.

As long as you keep up with regular maintenance (ie water changes etc) I think that you will be ok

 

[annka5]

2 ways to think of capacity of filter: 1 is rate per hour (ie 1,000,000,000 gallons per hour or whatever) and other is volume of filter media.
The more media, then the more places for the bacteria to colonize, so the more bacteria, and therefore the more effective at converting ammonia/nitrite.
A slower water flow through the filter (i.e. a lower rate per hour) would negatively affect mechanical filtration more than it would biological filtration.
Lots of fish don't like a strong water flow - angels being one - so a huge litre-per-hour on a filter for their tank would IMO be undesireable.
Most people with a filter (e.g. fluval) where you can change the flow will probably say the same- a slower flow rate (therefore less litres per hour) will not affect the water quality

...also, I've yet to hear of anyone who has used an Eheim filter to be unhappy with it; everyone who I've spoken to who use Eheim filters think tehy're fantastic.