Starting A New Tanks Tomorrow

[Lizi_angelfish]

Hi!

Just wanted to second what fluttermoth has said because she has given me so much advice over the last couple of months!

I set my tank up in the middle of August and it only completed cycling last week. In order to know that your tank is cycled, you need reading of 0ppm of nitrite and ammonia (like you said) AFTER adding ammonia to your tank. Most people use ammonia from homebase or kleen off which can be found on eBay and amazon type sites.

This is really important because otherwise, when you add fish the ammonia that they produce in their waste cannot be broken down (whereas if you have done a fishless cycle with ammonia, the bacterial colonies in your filter CAN cope with the waste).

This ammonia is lethal to fish, even at small levels.

The maidenhead aquatics near me is a great place to get fish but I would urge you to take a second look at the cycling sections in the beginners resource centre. Fluttermoth and the others on this forum have a wealth of knowledge that simply cannot be gotten from a LFS.

Take care and don't worry if you have more questions, everyone here is happy to help.

 

[stanster]

Nitrite reading was 0 as well.

 

[Essjay]

I must repeat what you have been told several times.

1. The chances are the bacterial supplement did nothing

2. Even if the bacterial supplement did contain live bacteria of the correct species, if the tank was just left running while you were on holiday, they would have starved to death by now.

3. Unless you have been adding ammonia daily or have fish in the tank, those readings for ammonia and nitrite are meaningless.

4. Unless you have been adding ammonia daily, as soon as you put fish in the tank, ammonia will shoot up. After a couple of weeks, nitrite will rocket.

5. If you get fish now, you will be doing a fish-in cycle, and will need to do at least one water change every day for several weeks to keep your fish alive.



Please buy a bottle of ammonia, add enough to give a reading of 5ppm ammonia and see what the reading is 12 hours later. If it is not zero, it is not safe to get any fish.

 

[stanster]

Ok, will look into getting some filter ready media tomorrow.

Just out of interest, I assume you mean ammonium hydroxide rather than ammonia, which is just as toxic to humans

 

[Essjay]

Ammonia in solution will exist in an equilibrium between free ammonia and ammonium hydroxide. They are both present in a bottle of household ammonia. They are only toxic to humans if mishandled. If you treat them with respect - don't breathe the fumes, don't spill it on yourself - then there is no problem.

In the tank, ammonia is deadly to fish. That's why you need to grow the bacteria in the filter to get rid of it.
What exactly do you mean by filter ready media? Do you mean media that has already been cycled? You'll find a lot of shops won't sell it, though some may. If you know someone who already has a mature filter you can take some of theirs. The media must be kept wet from taking out of the other filter and getting into yours, and it must be fed or the bacteria in it will starve - either by adding the ammonia solution so seem so wary of or by getting a few fish straight away. You'll still need to check the ammonia and nitrite levels daily to make sure the mature media hasn't suffered any die-off.

 

[stanster]

I know this, I'm a chartered chemist, not sure you'll get 0.880 ammonia anywhere, not even sure where you'd get an aqueous ammonia.

Struggling to understand this bacteria thing (biology not my field)

You say that adding a biological supplement probably wouldn't work as the bacteria wouldn't have anything to feed on, but simply by cycling water you hope to grow some and titrating in ammonia lets you know if they are there ?

And what do these bacteria feed on if there are no fish in the tank

Sure I'll get there eventually with this.

So if I do manage to source some filter media that is 'active', could I stock a few fish or do I have to do the ammnonia thing to check they are active ??

Thought of another question

can't you get round all this by having an ion exchange filter ?

 

[fluttermoth]

Let me try and explain a bit more (and I'll try not to make you cringe with my feeble chemistry knowledge )

The bottled bacterial supplements are usually dead, because the bacteria need a constant source of ammonia to stay alive. But there are live, and dormant versions, of nitrifying bacteria all around us, in the air, and in your water supply; just not enough to do anything, but that's where your bacterial colony gets it's start from.

The usual source of ammonia for a fishless cycle is the stuff they sell as a household cleaner. Most of them are (allegedly anyway; I don't what the true concentration might be, or whether the 9.5% is already some steps away from pure ammonia) a 9.5% ammonia/water solution.

The bacteria won't grow unless they have a source of ammonia, which is either your household ammonia solution (in a fishless cycle) or what's excreted by the fish (in a fish-in cycle). This is why just letting a tank run, without any ammonia, won't cycle your filter.

As to stocking immediately, with fish, if you have mature media to use, well, it really depends how confident you feel. It can happen that you get some die back of the bacteria when they're moved (a 'mini-cycle'), which entails extra water changes for a few days until te bacterial colony recovers.

I prefer to add ammonia to something like 2ppm, then add my mature media last thing at night. I test for ammonia and nitrite the next morning (after roughly twelve hours) and if they're both zero, I know I'm safe to go and get my fish.

I have no idea how ion exchange filters work, but I'm sure if it was a feasible method someone would be doing it by now!

Hope that helps; do post back if anything still isn't clear

 

[Aquascaper]

Always worth testing your tap water as well so that any trace elements can be deducted from your overall tank readings (ie. If your tap water has 20ppm Nitrates and your tank water has a steady 20ppm Nitrates then you can deduce that no Nitrates are being produced in the tank and therefore it has not yet 'cycled')

HTH

 

[Essjay]

I don't think ion exchange filters will work. Unless you have some very expensive equipment that would selectively remove just ammonia and nothing else, you would remove other things from the tank which need to stay there. And which ions would you replace the ammonium ions with? Fish have evolved to cope with the minerals found in natural water sources; changing the chemical content of the water in an aquarium would probably harm the fish.

Another problem with relying on such means to remove ammonia is that you have to use them all the time, and replace them before they become exhausted. They would prevent the bacterial colonies growing in the filter (no food for them) so that if the ion echange resin was not renewed on time, the ammonia in the tank would rocket. Continual resin renewal would turn the hobby in to quite an expensive one. It is much easier and cheaper to cultivate the two colonies of bacteria and let them do the job. So long as you look after them, you have no further expense.

How do you look after them? You make sure they have enough food - once they have grown in the filter, the fish provide the food, and until then you add it to the tank for them. You make sure they have enough oxygen - position the filter so it causes ripples on the surface and the water is circulated through the tank ensuring that gas exchange is at its most effecient. You keep sources of chlorine away from them - which means use dechlorinator every time you add water to the tank and never clean the filter media in tapwater, only in old tank water that you've removed during a water change.

And don't replace the filter media like the manual will tell you. If you replace the media you will throw away all those bacteria. Depending on exactly what's inside your filter: sponges should be gently squeezed in old tankwater to remove the debris. They only need replacing when they literaly fall apart or won't go back to shape after wasing - in several years time. Ceramic media will need replacing when it starts to crumble in several years time. If you have carbon in the filter, it is not actually necessary. At this stage of your tank's life, the best thing to do is replace the carbon with another filter medium.


As a chemist, you would probably be happier with chemical means of filtration, but as someone with a rather old degree in chemistry (with biochemistry as my auxilliary subject though!) I can safely say that for home aquaria, biological methods are better.



Edit: if you don't like the idea of using ammonia solution, how do you feel about ammonium chloride, if you can source it?