Ok, it`s a silly question now.....but are they poisonous. I need categorical proof that they are. I just bought 2 from my LFS and my albino and tiger Oscars were very, very inquisitive (they tried to `taste` them).....result, both Oscars now lying on a piece of newspaper...dead!!!! The shop said they`ve never heard of this happening as they`ve sold 100`s but will do some research and find out. I`m not happy and very gutted cos I`ve killed my fish.
Spotted Puffer...poisonous?
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Curiosity101
Is now at University! :D
nmonks
A stroke of the brush does not guarantee art from
It's actually more complicated than the Wiki article suggests.
Pufferfish do not synthesise poisons. They absorb poisons from their food, specifically algae inside the guts of clams and other shellfish. When they stop feeding in the wild, the amount of poison slowly declines. There's contradictory lab work on how fast this happens, so probably varies from species to species. But it does happen.
There's also variation in where that poison is located. So far as I know, the poisons are inside the body, including the skin, rather than the mucous on the outside (compare, for example, with boxfish). For your oscars to have swallowed some poison, they must have done rather than more than merely "taste" the fish. Puffers are usually ignored by predatory fish of similar size; these puffers must have been very small, surely, to have been sucked/bitten by your oscars?
I'm assuming these were green spotted puffers, such as Tetraodon nigroviridis or Tetraodon fluviatilis. These need brackish water in captivity, so had no business being out in a tank with oscars anyway. I can't think of any pufferfish that would be a safe companion for an oscar, so as ever, we come back to the mantra of research the needs of a fish before purchase.
Cheers, Neale
Pufferfish do not synthesise poisons. They absorb poisons from their food, specifically algae inside the guts of clams and other shellfish. When they stop feeding in the wild, the amount of poison slowly declines. There's contradictory lab work on how fast this happens, so probably varies from species to species. But it does happen.
There's also variation in where that poison is located. So far as I know, the poisons are inside the body, including the skin, rather than the mucous on the outside (compare, for example, with boxfish). For your oscars to have swallowed some poison, they must have done rather than more than merely "taste" the fish. Puffers are usually ignored by predatory fish of similar size; these puffers must have been very small, surely, to have been sucked/bitten by your oscars?
I'm assuming these were green spotted puffers, such as Tetraodon nigroviridis or Tetraodon fluviatilis. These need brackish water in captivity, so had no business being out in a tank with oscars anyway. I can't think of any pufferfish that would be a safe companion for an oscar, so as ever, we come back to the mantra of research the needs of a fish before purchase.
Cheers, Neale
Davo86
Cichlids, Catfish and Oddballs
sorry but thats what happens when you don't research fish you buy,
I agree guys, I usually do research and never buy on impulse, but I asked the people in the shop if they`d be ok and they said yup, no problems.
I`ve just been back now and they`re gobsmacked, they been selling them for over 25 years with no deaths. The guy at the shop spoke to a zoo somewhere and they said if the Oscar had one in it`s mouth then it would get poisoned. My albino only nipped one, but he did so while it was puffed so I assume that was enough. The thing that p****s me off is that they had no idea they were poisonous.
Anyway, they`re going to give me a tiger and albino for free and when they get my 2 red severums which I have on order, I can have those for free too.
One last question, is there any remote possibility that my water might be at risk now?
I`ve just been back now and they`re gobsmacked, they been selling them for over 25 years with no deaths. The guy at the shop spoke to a zoo somewhere and they said if the Oscar had one in it`s mouth then it would get poisoned. My albino only nipped one, but he did so while it was puffed so I assume that was enough. The thing that p****s me off is that they had no idea they were poisonous.
Anyway, they`re going to give me a tiger and albino for free and when they get my 2 red severums which I have on order, I can have those for free too.
One last question, is there any remote possibility that my water might be at risk now?
nmonks
A stroke of the brush does not guarantee art from
Yes, that would be enough. As In understand it, the skin needs to be broken for the poison to get into the predator. This contrasts with boxfish, which secrete toxic mucous when stressed.
I think you'd be surprised how many fish are known or potentially toxic or venomous. Most catfish at the least have irritant mucous from their spines, including thorny catfish and supposedly even Corydoras. Most predatory reef fish can cause ciguatera poisoning in humans, and things like moray eels have a whole cocktail of potential venoms.
Not much of a risk, no. Most toxins will be metabolised by the filter bacteria within a day. Would recommend you use (new) carbon in the filter for a while though; carbon is, incidentally, what the emergency room medics would use in cases of tetrodoxin poisoning. The poison binds with the carbon very readily. Before you add any new fish, remove the carbon. Don't forget to keep the filter bacterial "well fed" with ammonia in the interim, e.g., by leaving a prawn or piece of fish to rot at the bottom of the tank.
Cheers, Neale
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