Some Questions - Plant Id/algae/carbon Source

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Hi there,

Another Andy here with my two-penneth.

I have a Juwel Rio 240 with standard T8 lights, reflectors and no fertilisation, basic soil substrate and low demand plants.

I had similar algae problems to you on the tank and have found that a much reduced photoperiod has really helped. I have limited mine to about 4 and a half hrs per day - this seems ridiculously short and flies in the face of all coventional wisdom but I can say it works for me.

If you have a similar set-up it may be worth a go. I did try and increase the light period on mine to a more conventional 8 then 7 then 6 hrs and found that no matter what I tried the plants developed spots of algae and some holes and yellowish leaves.

My theory (probably rubbish as science is not my forte) is that the plants in my tank are easy growers which don't require a lot of light or fertilisation. If you up the light then you need to up the fertilisation as well otherwise lack of nutrients proves the limiting factor.

You seem like me in your attitude to plants: after a nice looking (if basic) tank with little hi-tech gadgetry and time spent pruning as possible.

I am sure a lot of people will disagree with what I am saying here but I can only tell you my experience, I am no expert at all. I find 4 and a half hrs for my tank strikes the balance. I get slow but constant and healthy plant growth without noticeable algae and no need for any pruning at all really.

I have a journal in my signature if you want a better look.

I am about to set up a Rio 300 with Tetraplant substrate, the same T8 lighting (1.5WPG), similar plant species and regular fertilisation with Seachem Flourish and liquid CO2 with Flourish Excel. I am expecting to be able to increase the photperiod to a more normal 7 or 8 hrs as the plants should have sufficient nutrients in the water column and substrate to make use of all the light. It will be very interesting for me to see if this is really the case and just what extra plant growth the more costly substrate, Flourish and Flourish excel actually produce.

As for the BGA, I had an outbreak too. I managed to get rid of it by doing a big water change then sealing the tank from all light for 72 hrs then doing another big water change at the end. I was amazed at the state of the tank as I uncovered it after the blackout, the sand was bright and sparkling again!

The key though is to get to the root cause of the BGA and change whatever needs changing (shorter photoperiod in the above case) otherwise the BGA is highly likely to return. I now wedge a credit card between the front glass of the tank and the sand and give it a good scrape every couple of weeks to prevent any build up of BGA as I believe it works its way up from the substrate. I think it was George Farmer who recommended the credit card on this forum.

You have a really nice looking tank there and hope you can overcome these minor blips. Look forward to more pictures as it develops.

Cheers, Andy (MK III)
 
I would love to give it another try. Do you mind if I pm you sometime in the New Year?

I don't have any luck growing Java ferns and mosses either. Time to save up for some decent lighting and fancy substrate I guess.

Just let me know when you want some more frogbit (assuming nothing happens to mine before then! .... I've never had algae on the floating plants ... yet!)

You don't need good substrate or lighting for any of those plants. Hornwort has lost the ability to form roots and either floats at the surface or very quickly grows up to it (if you plant the stems) and the others grow on bog wood or rocks. Fertiliser might help, though.

And yes ... thanks ... I've settled into my new abode now. :nod:
 
Hi there,
Another Andy here with my two-penneth.

Wow, Andy Mk III ... that's a very short light period. I couldn't get the link to your journal to work, so I'm not sure what plants you're growing. If the chemicals don't work, then I might bring myself to try it ....but it would severely limit the amount of time I spend gawping at the tank.

I got ridiculed last time I mentioned this .... but I have a pair of small binoculars and when I'm working in the same room as the tank I occasionally take a look at the fishes through the binoculars (and no ... you don't need a house the size of Buckingham Palace for it to work!). That way the fishes don't know I'm spying on them. If I get up and peer in at them, they all stop what they're doing and rush to the front ... in case I have food. I'd really miss my occasional spying, if the lights were on for such a short time! (I know, I know ... I need to get a life ... but I work from home)

I have a split personality where the plants are concerned anyway. I get fed up with the fast growing ones that have to be continually trimmed and yet I love to see the anubias spp. and the cryptocorynes and the Echinodorus spp. putting out new leaves.

I've just ordered a mixed batch of 15, cheap un-named cryptocorynes and I'm going to cram the tank with the BGA full of those and try the fertiliser/liquid carbon method to get better growth. If that doesn't work I'll have to try the blackout but I have six chain loaches in there who seem to have been upset by moving house. They're very nervous and skittish at the moment. I don't think 72 hours of darkness would help their behaviour ... but I don't think they like the BGA either ... they don't sit on the bog wood when it gets covered. I'll let you know what happens.

I'll be really interested to hear how you get on with your Rio 300 :good:

edited: for spelling
 
My theory (probably rubbish as science is not my forte) is that the plants in my tank are easy growers which don't require a lot of light or fertilisation. If you up the light then you need to up the fertilisation as well otherwise lack of nutrients proves the limiting factor.

If you watch the plants in a longer photoperiod they often start their pearling (letting off excess oxygen after 4/5 hours and also start to fold up their leaves as they have had the light they need.

The yellow spots and algae were probs due to a deffiiency which when you reduced the light period counteracted this as they needed less for the 4 hours.

Longer photoperiod needs more nutrients etc.

My tank is next to the PC in my 'study' which means they are used to me being sat here all the time and I can look 3 ft to my right and watch them without them changing their activity unless I get out of my seat. He he

I love chain loaches although I've never owned any of them. beautiful looking little fish. I need another tank. lol

Andy (Mk I,II,II) I've lost track of where I am in the Andy pecking order.
 
Just let me know when you want some more frogbit (assuming nothing happens to mine before then! .... I've never had algae on the floating plants ... yet!)
Thank you Majjie :D

You don't need good substrate or lighting for any of those plants. Hornwort has lost the ability to form roots and either floats at the surface or very quickly grows up to it (if you plant the stems) and the others grow on bog wood or rocks. Fertiliser might help, though.
I have also been adding a bit of Seachem Flourish to my tanks for the last couple of months. My half-dead Java Ferns (all on bogwood) have now sprouted a few new leaves. Not sure whether it's due to Excel or Flourish or both :rolleyes: I have a couple of clumps of some Crypt in plain gravel that have been growing slowly. Would love to try more different Crypts when I get some decent substrate.

Just a note on the BGA. I thought Excel doesn't kill BGA, or does it? As far as I know, you need a total blackout for 72 hours then big water change and gravel vac OR use some kind of antibiotics to treat it. Please correct me if I'm wrong, anybody or any Andys :lol:

Kit ^_^
 
No excel doesn't affect BGA, you're right a black out is the best solution and good water movement helps prevent it starting again.

Sam
 
Thanks Guys,

I'll see if I can get a big community of well growing plants in the tank with BGA ... to outgrow it. If that doesn't work, then I'll go for the blackout.

During my house move, a big chunk of BGA got transferred into the bigger tank, by accident. It started to grow quite quickly for about a month and I was worried that it would take over in there too but ... virtually overnight ... it just disappeared. I'm guessing that this was because the conditions didn't suit it, so I'm hoping to get the right (wrong) conditions in the other tank too. I'll up the flow rate as well.
 
I'll see if I can get a big community of well growing plants in the tank with BGA ... to outgrow it. If that doesn't work, then I'll go for the blackout.

Your plants will not outcompete BGA. Remove as much as you can and go for the three day blackout. Then do a 50% water change. Your fish will be fine throughout this.

In my experience, BGA originates in the substrate at its edges where it receives sunlight. The credit card method works well in keeping the BGA down. If this is not successful, try keeping the substrate below the height of the trim at the base of the tank.

Dave, but I can change it to Andy, if you want.

P.S. Nice looking tank.
 
If you watch the plants in a longer photoperiod they often start their pearling (letting off excess oxygen after 4/5 hours and also start to fold up their leaves as they have had the light they need.

The yellow spots and algae were probs due to a deffiiency which when you reduced the light period counteracted this as they needed less for the 4 hours.

Longer photoperiod needs more nutrients etc.

So does this mean that my theory about low demand plants in a low-tech set up only requiring about 4 and a half hrs light is correct?

It will be interesting to see whether I can go for a 7 or 8 hr photoperiod with the same plants but with Seachem Flourish and Flourish Excel.

I work til the evening so 4 and a half hrs light then is OK for me. When I'm around at the weekend I'm always itching for the lights to come on and sometimes flick them on for an hour or two extra if I'm around.
 
Your plants will not outcompete BGA. Remove as much as you can and go for the three day blackout. Then do a 50% water change. Your fish will be fine throughout this.

In my experience, BGA originates in the substrate at its edges where it receives sunlight. The credit card method works well in keeping the BGA down. If this is not successful, try keeping the substrate below the height of the trim at the base of the tank.

Dave, but I can change it to Andy, if you want.

P.S. Nice looking tank.

Thanks Dave (honourable Andy) :D

The BGA started growing before I moved house, when the tank used to get some sunshine. It doesn't get any now ... and yet the BGA seems to be growing even better. I'll try scraping it off and planting the tank much more heavily (since I've already ordered the plants :p ) ... but at least I now know what to do when that doesn't work!

Majjie
 
So does this mean that my theory about low demand plants in a low-tech set up only requiring about 4 and a half hrs light is correct?

It will be interesting to see whether I can go for a 7 or 8 hr photoperiod with the same plants but with Seachem Flourish and Flourish Excel.

I work til the evening so 4 and a half hrs light then is OK for me. When I'm around at the weekend I'm always itching for the lights to come on and sometimes flick them on for an hour or two extra if I'm around.

Indeed it does. This is why a noon burst works so well. The plants will use whatever light there is but like us when they have had enough they close up and go to sleep.

Over 8 hours you will get faster growth but need more nutrient too.

Andy
 

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