Just a little rant but I think that lfs that allow people to fully and incorectly stock a new tank should be shut down. THIS IS CRUELTY TO ANIMALS. I don't understand why it hasn't been stopped yet. I'm going to buy a dog and stick it in my front yard on a two foot leash ( I live on a major highway BTW). Once the dog is running around on piles of it's own poop and someone calls the cops on me I'm going to say what's the difference? Cause really what is the difference?
Some people
- Thread starter FishEnthusiast
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Most shops in the business make money their first priority. They sell a new 10 gallon setup with 10 fish, when you come back in a few days with a couple deadies & a water sample, they tell you the water has high ammo, sell you some sort of ammo lock & a couple more fish. This goes on a few times until the tank cycles, the strongest survive, and after a while you need a larger tank for the common plec & couple survivors who are getting big. It is wrong, I don't deal with corporate shops at all, or private shops who work like that, selling or buying.
I think they get away with doing that with fish, and I think you would get arrested for the dog on the 2 foot leash because people can interact with mammals easier than fish. If you interact you can relate to them. That prioritizes their importance.
BTW, I did the same 10 gallon overstock wrong fish thing years ago, way before the internet was around with all the information available. You either learn, or lose interest & sell your tank to people like me for pennies on the dollar.
Tolak
I think they get away with doing that with fish, and I think you would get arrested for the dog on the 2 foot leash because people can interact with mammals easier than fish. If you interact you can relate to them. That prioritizes their importance.
BTW, I did the same 10 gallon overstock wrong fish thing years ago, way before the internet was around with all the information available. You either learn, or lose interest & sell your tank to people like me for pennies on the dollar.
Tolak
that was my point exactly. They get away with doing that to a fish but I can't mistreat my dog if I want to. It's wrong doggonit. I wanna torture my dog, and the government shouldn't say a thing about it. Now you know i'm kidding. I keep my little dog on a 15 foot leash and give her fresh food and water every day. I am just trying to make a point. What is the difference between what I said and what they do.
Cullen aquanaut
New Member
Hello everybody 
Actually i used to work at a petstore and thats where i fell in love with this hobby.
Major stores that aren't in it for the buck do their best to make friends with customers because the fish business is a poor job.
I know because i have many friends in the fish business.
Other stores just hire stupid people, also, so don't really blame the store itself.
Anyway, the upside down catfish that your friend has isn't a schooling fish.
Catfish of that type are of the syndontis family which come from africa.
When they are put in groups in a small tank with little to no hiding spaces they will fight amongst eachother.
The tank is also too small for that one catfish, they are known to reach sizes of 4-5 inches and might go after your other fish.
The tank is over populated in a short time, but don't let her learn the hard way.
Ofcourse it might seem gratifing at first, but if your a true fish lover, you should show her physically how to do it the right way.
You owe it to her fish.
Right now it might be ok with the fish she has in her tank right now, if you do water changes weekly, of about half the tank, the fish should be just fine.
I'm not too sure what kind of fish the engler you were talking about is.
If you could send a pic i would greatly appreciate it.
With bumble bee gobies, they are considered brackish water fish, but they can be acclimated to freshwater.
Knight gobies are also known to be brackish, but i myself had success with them in fresh.
When you buy a fish like that you should check with the store if they put salt into the tank.
If there is salt you can easily buy sodium chloride from the store, which is like the salt they put on the round, and put a teaspoon per 10 gallons in the tank and the fish will be just fine.
Only put the salt in once though, and a little during water changes.
Sorry for the ear full, but fish are my passion and i like to educate
If there are any other questions i'll be on this forum daily or you can e-mail me.
My e-mail is in my profile.
Actually i used to work at a petstore and thats where i fell in love with this hobby.
Major stores that aren't in it for the buck do their best to make friends with customers because the fish business is a poor job.
I know because i have many friends in the fish business.
Other stores just hire stupid people, also, so don't really blame the store itself.
Anyway, the upside down catfish that your friend has isn't a schooling fish.
Catfish of that type are of the syndontis family which come from africa.
When they are put in groups in a small tank with little to no hiding spaces they will fight amongst eachother.
The tank is also too small for that one catfish, they are known to reach sizes of 4-5 inches and might go after your other fish.
The tank is over populated in a short time, but don't let her learn the hard way.
Ofcourse it might seem gratifing at first, but if your a true fish lover, you should show her physically how to do it the right way.
You owe it to her fish.
Right now it might be ok with the fish she has in her tank right now, if you do water changes weekly, of about half the tank, the fish should be just fine.
I'm not too sure what kind of fish the engler you were talking about is.
If you could send a pic i would greatly appreciate it.
With bumble bee gobies, they are considered brackish water fish, but they can be acclimated to freshwater.
Knight gobies are also known to be brackish, but i myself had success with them in fresh.
When you buy a fish like that you should check with the store if they put salt into the tank.
If there is salt you can easily buy sodium chloride from the store, which is like the salt they put on the round, and put a teaspoon per 10 gallons in the tank and the fish will be just fine.
Only put the salt in once though, and a little during water changes.
Sorry for the ear full, but fish are my passion and i like to educate
If there are any other questions i'll be on this forum daily or you can e-mail me.
My e-mail is in my profile.
FishEnthusiast
Fish Herder
I do have to agree. It is frustrating that people that sell fish sometimes don't know what they are doing. And they serve people that have no idea what they are doing. I do agree that it is wrong. Having said that, there are so many people out there that are just happy to have a job. I have to give them credit for trying. I had one Petsmart employee say to me:
"Ya, I think when I have some time I will study ich. I find it so strange that once one gets it they all do."
Now that is ignorant in my opinon, but he was only 16 or so and had probably never kept a fish in his life. I don't trust any employee at any fish store. I do all my own research. I do however test them sometimes. With questions like "can you keep two of those pretty fish *points to the bettas* in a tank together?"
or "Will that one go good in my 20G tank? *points to the Oscars*" I like to hear their responses. I gauge whether or not I will shop there again based on their answers. I could go on and on about the crappy employees, but the fact is they aren't crappy people, just uninformed.
"Ya, I think when I have some time I will study ich. I find it so strange that once one gets it they all do."
Now that is ignorant in my opinon, but he was only 16 or so and had probably never kept a fish in his life. I don't trust any employee at any fish store. I do all my own research. I do however test them sometimes. With questions like "can you keep two of those pretty fish *points to the bettas* in a tank together?"
or "Will that one go good in my 20G tank? *points to the Oscars*" I like to hear their responses. I gauge whether or not I will shop there again based on their answers. I could go on and on about the crappy employees, but the fact is they aren't crappy people, just uninformed.FishEnthusiast
Fish Herder
I was under the impression that brackish meant marine salt. Is that what sodium chloride is? She told me that the catfish was a dwarf and that it is pretty much full grown. I will suggest she rehome it. As I said her mom is thinking of buying a really big tank, so she could keep it until then and rehome it. I believe the endler is a snake endler, but I am not entirely sure. She couldn't get a clear picture of it.
I don't see her often as we don't live close to eachother, but we talk on IM almost every day. I will continue to try to get her to rehome fish. I might even be able to talk her into another tank or two.
I don't see her often as we don't live close to eachother, but we talk on IM almost every day. I will continue to try to get her to rehome fish. I might even be able to talk her into another tank or two.
Ok I can definitly sympathize with that. I used to work in a greenhouse and I didn't know up from down and there was no one there to help me. But it would not be hard at all for LFS to distribute pamphlets on appropriate tank size and cycling, as well as a care sheet and compatibility chart with the fish they sell.
SandMan8388
Fish Crazy
Yeah distrubuting accurate pamphlets and care sheets, would not make large tanks, nor even a 10 gallon tank sell what so ever. If people knew what kind of fish and how many fish they could keep in a 10 gallon, they would proably drop the whole idea anyways. Most people who walk into a fish store see "pretty fish" and want those then and there not knowing the environment needed.
Plus telling them all the maitenance, and chemicals needed to keep the tank healthy would totally kill the idea of "fish being an easy pet". And obviously the fish buisness being a poor buisness wouldn't go over very well.
So it comes down to the question does the owner want to save fish and tell the average day customer that the fish and setup he picked out is not compatible or put food on the table for him and his family?
Plus telling them all the maitenance, and chemicals needed to keep the tank healthy would totally kill the idea of "fish being an easy pet". And obviously the fish buisness being a poor buisness wouldn't go over very well.
So it comes down to the question does the owner want to save fish and tell the average day customer that the fish and setup he picked out is not compatible or put food on the table for him and his family?
seems to me the real question is should we be in a hobby that can only be supported by misinformation and cruelty. If the man can't make money honestly in the fish business then maybe he should find another business. Selling common plecos into 5-10 gallon aquariums is not only cruel to the fish but to the fish owner. It can't sleep at night thinking about where I am going to find a 75Gallon aquarium for the fish that can't stay in the 29 that I bought.
Yes, they have to feed their family, but if they're going to sell fish knowing they'll be mistreated just for money, they shouldn't have come into the aquarium trade.SandMan8388 said:Yeah distrubuting accurate pamphlets and care sheets, would not make large tanks, nor even a 10 gallon tank sell what so ever. If people knew what kind of fish and how many fish they could keep in a 10 gallon, they would proably drop the whole idea anyways. Most people who walk into a fish store see "pretty fish" and want those then and there not knowing the environment needed.
Plus telling them all the maitenance, and chemicals needed to keep the tank healthy would totally kill the idea of "fish being an easy pet". And obviously the fish buisness being a poor buisness wouldn't go over very well.
So it comes down to the question does the owner want to save fish and tell the average day customer that the fish and setup he picked out is not compatible or put food on the table for him and his family?
People shouldn't sell fish if they have no love for them to start with.
There should be and probably are gov't regulations against keeping a creature in an enclosure that is too small for it to survive. These people should not be running fish stores, and the gov't should make sure of that. If you can't make money honestly then the business should fail.
FishEnthusiast
Fish Herder
I have to say there are very few little lfs around where I live. I have found though that the ones that are around are very good. They do not sell common plecs for small tanks, etc. It is the big chain stores that don't care. They are the ones that are misinforming people about their fish. And the fact of the matter is they don't care about the fish. The fish are window dressings to get you to come in a buy other things like tanks and filters. That is where the money is.
One other thing, it has crossed my mind that stores sell these enormous fish to people with little tanks so those same people will come back and buy a bigger tank. I had one store push really hard for me to buy some clown loaches to get rid of my snails. I told him no way I only have a 55G, that is way too small, I want the zebra loach. He told me they don't carry them because they are aggressive. That is not what I have heard at all. Their clown loaches were in a 15G tank btw. Thank god they were small.
One other thing, it has crossed my mind that stores sell these enormous fish to people with little tanks so those same people will come back and buy a bigger tank. I had one store push really hard for me to buy some clown loaches to get rid of my snails. I told him no way I only have a 55G, that is way too small, I want the zebra loach. He told me they don't carry them because they are aggressive. That is not what I have heard at all. Their clown loaches were in a 15G tank btw. Thank god they were small.
FishEnthusiast
Fish Herder
Probably not, but I refuse to stock my tank with something that doesn't fit in the long run. In fact, my tank seems rather empty right now, but the fish that are in there are going to get much bigger in the future. I will squeeze those botias in though, I really need to get the snail population under control.
As for my friend, I have convinced her not to add anymore fish. She is returning the gobies to the store for credit. She is in the process of finding a big tank for her parents, so I will help her stock that tank when it is ready.
I also let her know not to mess with the ph and to just get fish that match our ph, which is easy cause it is neutral. I explained a bit about cycling and let her know what to watch out for in her tank. I insisted she buy a test kit and use it every day until she was cycled. I really hope she will listen. She asked a ton of questions tonight, so I think I am on the right track with her.
As for my friend, I have convinced her not to add anymore fish. She is returning the gobies to the store for credit. She is in the process of finding a big tank for her parents, so I will help her stock that tank when it is ready.
I also let her know not to mess with the ph and to just get fish that match our ph, which is easy cause it is neutral. I explained a bit about cycling and let her know what to watch out for in her tank. I insisted she buy a test kit and use it every day until she was cycled. I really hope she will listen. She asked a ton of questions tonight, so I think I am on the right track with her.
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