Some Help Please?

[Liquidshokk]

Hi all,

I think my tank may have finally cycled after 10 weeks or so, could someone confirm?

I am getting no signs of nitrite when i test weekly (before or after weekly 10% waterchange)
NitrATE is between 10-20mg/l
No signs of ammonia and PH levels good

I now have 16 fish in my 96 litre tank

(4 Red Coral Platties
2 Male German Guppies
2 Neon Blue Gouramies
2 Orange Gouramies
2 Torpedo Denisonni Barbs (Replaced one that died, other one much much happier now!)
2 White Mollies
2 Panda Cories)

oh and a snail.... (should i take him out?)

Ever since I have been trying to cycle the tank i have only fed the fish every other day. I have noticed that they have started coming to the front of the tank and to the top of the water more now looking for food, should i start feeding them daily???

Also, The guy at the shop reckons we could get at least another 5 fish or so but I get the feeling that 16 is enough in that size tank, can anyone confirm this, afterall I know the shop just wants to make money)


Thanks for your time

 

[Tessla]

That works out to about 25 US gallons, you may want to sort out some of your current stocking. It isn't so much an issue of number of fish as size and compatability of adult fish. You could easily fit 20 small rasboras in there with room to spare, but not 20 gouramis.

Two isn't really a good number for most fish, agressive carnivores prefer to be kept alone while social fish will prefer a group of 3 to 5 or more. Livebearers and gouramis should generally be kept so that you have at least two females to every male or a single male, in the case of guppies and a few other livebearers you can get away with a group of 3 or more males to spread out agression. A group of all females is generally fine.

4 Red Coral Platties - these should be fine
2 Male German Guppies - round this out to one more guppy to take care of aggression
2 Neon Blue Gouramies - likely male dwarf gouramis
2 Orange Gouramies - also likely male dwarf gouramis with a different color form, can you get a picture of these fish?
2 Torpedo Denisonni Barbs (Replaced one that died, other one much much happier now!) - grow to 6 inches and need a group of 5+, not suited to your tank at all
2 White Mollies - should keep one male to two females or three or more males together, really not the best idea to keep mollies in a community tank as they prefer brackish water.
2 Panda Cories - another social fish that prefers a group of 5 or more, I'd get three more for your tank.

As for that snail, unless it's one of the fancy apple or mystery snails, you've likely got some pests in your tank that you'll want to get rid of before they multiply.

What I'd do is take back the barbs, mollies and all but one gourami, then get the other numbers up a bit rather than adding more species. You might be able to get away with a male honey gourami with two females in that tank, but probably not any larger species unless you plan on getting rid of a lot more fish. Definitely not enough room for multiple male gouramis in there.

 

[Liquidshokk]

WOW!! Didnt think we would have got it THAT wrong!! Funny how the shop never told me any of that!!

Well the situation is this, The shop will not take back the fish (tried this when I wanted to take the barb back) So I need to work with what I have got if i can....

The thing I dont understand is they all seem perfectly happy... The only possible issues I see are the 2 Male guppies having a go at each other every now and then (must admit I thought they were playing) however this isnt a frequent problem. Also One of the Orange Gouramies is a bit bossy with the other one. (btw photos attached)

The only options I can see are as follows;

Get one more male guppy
get another male white molly (believe I have two males)
get 3 more panda cories (however if i cant take the other fish back then will this be too many??)

Not sure what to do about the gouramis though and I'd like to keep the barbs if poss as I really like them and they seem happy enough?!?!?

 

[Tessla]

Ack! Sounds like you've got an awful shop on your hands, especially if they won't take the unsuitable fish back though I doubt anyone would give you a refund. I'd ask to speak to the manager and explain how the store sold you fish unsuitable for your tank in the first place and all that you are asking is that they take the fish back so that you can stock your tank properly (no refund). Also see if you can find another LFS in the area, they might take the problem fish. I'd avoid buying any more fish from the original shop, especially if you can't convince them to take back any fish. Most shops will give you dodgy advice, you'll want to do all of your own research and make a stock shopping list before you go out to buy anything in the future.

The thing I dont understand is they all seem perfectly happy... The only possible issues I see are the 2 Male guppies having a go at each other every now and then (must admit I thought they were playing) however this isnt a frequent problem. Also One of the Orange Gouramies is a bit bossy with the other one. (btw photos attached)

They may seem to be perfectly happy at first, but as they sort out territory and mature (practically all fish are sold as juveniles), you'll have problems in your tank. I'm afraid you can't keep those particular barbs as they'll outgrow your tank, even if they seem happy enough right now.

The blue gourami is definitely a dwarf gourami, and if they both look like the one in the picture they're both males. Females will be much more drab, and rarely sold in stores. Not sure what species the orange ones are, but they don't look at all like dwarf gouramis. It does sound as if you've got at least one male there if not two, you may want to post pictures in the gourami section of the forums for a better ID. You really don't want to keep more than one male gourami in that tank, they'll develop problems over time.

I wouldn't add any more guppies or mollies to your tank as you should have enough room in there that they'll be fine for the moment until you can sort out your stocking. Same for the corys, you still have a relatively new tank and adding to the bioload now without first removing fish would be a problem.

 

[Liquidshokk]

What youre saying makes perfect sense.... It is a HUGE dissapointment though...

I am going to have to have a good chat with the LFS and explain the situation... One of the big factors is that we have spent a LOT of money stocking the tank and definately dont like the idea of giving the fish away without a refund!

If we were to leave the tank as it is and see how we go, what would be the worst that we could expect as time goes on?

Also, would you mind shedding some light on my original feeding question? is daily ok now the tank is cycled??

PS the snail is OUTTA THERE!!

 

[Tessla]

Daily feedings are perfectly fine now that your tank is cycled, I usually go for a smaller morning and evening feeding though it also won't hurt the fish to go a few days without food every so often.

If you leave the tank as is, you're overstocked with the barbs in there and so many gouramis. The barbs will likely stunt, which can lead to all sorts of illness and shorter lifespans for them. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the gouramis kill each other, especially the dwarf gouramis. The mollies will be more susceptible to disease, if you keep the tank well maintained with regular water changes and good filtration they'll do better. You may have trouble with one of the guppies being picked on, same with one of the mollies but I doubt you'll see any serious long term effects there. The corydoras will hide more as they will feel more insecure with a smaller group. All around, you're looking at too much bioload as the barbs grow leading to poor water quality in your tank which will affect all of your fish in the long run.

In short, if you keep the tank as is, none of your fish will thrive and a few will likely kill each other. I understand that stocking can get expensive, but you're looking at most likely losing several of these fish either way. Hopefully you can at least get a store credit for some of the fish.

 

[Liquidshokk]

Thanks for another great reply.... I have been studying the tank tonight and I agree with you even more now Tessla....

The largest of the gold gouramis has been nothing but a big bully tonight! When I fed them he was chasing after everyone headbutting them.... I also noticed that one of the blue gouramis was occasionally doing the same....

It's a long shot but I have put a post in the buy/swap section asking if anyone nr Southampton would be willing to swap a few of my fish for something more suitable...

My plan is to get rid of all but one gouramis (say the two orange and one blue) and the barbs (Boo Hoo) and try it out with another guppy (3 males), another molly (3 males) and 3 more panda cories (5).... This would mean i would just have one blue gourami left, would he be ok on his own or would i be better off getting 3 females in there too? (He'd be a lucky chap )

I'ts too early to think about that stage I know, I somehow need to move some of these guys on....

what a disaster....

 

[Tessla]

Sounds like a plan! Hopefully you can find good homes for the fish.

Never too early to plan out your stocking, but I'd go with just the single male gourami in your tank. You could maybe do a male with two females if you went with honey gouramis, but with all of the other fish in there that would be pushing it. If you want to add more fish to your tank after you've sorted out your stocking, I'd add to the existing groups of livebearers and cories.

 

[n3ont3tra]

You're getting some great advice from Tessla, I don't have anything to add except for stick with your plan.

 

[Liquidshokk]

You're getting some great advice from Tessla, I don't have anything to add except for stick with your plan.

I tgotally agree, very good advice indeed and it is much appreciated! Its just a shame that the fish shop couldnt be as helpful and honest when helping me choose fish!!!

Will let you know how i get on....

 

[vinylman]

You're getting some great advice from Tessla, I don't have anything to add except for stick with your plan.

I tgotally agree, very good advice indeed and it is much appreciated! Its just a shame that the fish shop couldnt be as helpful and honest when helping me choose fish!!!

Will let you know how i get on....

The shop is there to make money from you. Look at it from their point of view; do they tell you exactly what you need to know, or do they give you everything you ask for?. Whatever you ask for, they'll sell you. When you have problems in your tank, you go back to the shop: ''Ah, yes, what you need is a bottle of this, or that. Oh and you'll need some of this, and that..............''. And of course, when your fish die, you'll go back to buy replacements. Same thing with manufacturers telling you to replace filter media every month. It's complete toss.

 

[Liquidshokk]

Oooh dear sounds like someone has history with a LFS! I totally agree tho, I feel I was a bit gullable in thinking they would actually care about the fish and want them to be happy....silly me.....

 

[Tessla]

A few shops do care about the welfare of the fish, it just takes some searching around to find them. I've had the good fortune of having experienced four really excellent shops (ok, so one only dealt with only goldfish and koi and two of the others were owned by the same people... maybe more like two general fish shops) and a couple more that have at the very least sent obvious newbies (looking to buy expensive delicate fish the same day that their tanks were set up) home to do a bit more setup. However even some of the better ones will still send you off with whatever you ask for if you sound like you might have an idea about fishkeeping, no questions about tank size, stocking and maintainence asked. I'm also not counting the many (usually chain) stores I've been in that will give flat out wrong advice when asked and sell absolutely anything to anyone that waves some cash around.

If you want to check out fish stores, do a bit of research and see if you can convince them that you're a newbie. Ask questions about getting a brand new tank started up (see if they mention the nitrogen cycle at all and what products they try to send you off with), if you can keep one of those nifty little common plecos in a ten gallon tank, a male betta with a few females in the same tank, etc. I won't completely write off a store that doesn't give out perfect answers to everything, but so long as they keep their stock well (not trying to sell me sick fish, few dead fish and not crammed into tiny tanks or with inappropriate tank mates) and aren't constantly trying to pawn me off with some products I know I don't need, I can cut them a little slack as I've yet to see the perfect LFS.

 

[Jozlyn]

Oooh dear sounds like someone has history with a LFS! I totally agree tho, I feel I was a bit gullable in thinking they would actually care about the fish and want them to be happy....silly me.....

hehehe I think you'll find that just about everyone has an issue of some sort with a LFS! I know I do! Selling sick fish and they don't even know enough about fish to know that they're sick! Selling pregnant female livebearers, without telling you they're pregnant, then refusing to take the resulting fry! Not selling food to suit all of the fish they sell ie I bought a Bristlenose Catfish, but they don't sell algae wafers, because they didn't know that's what they eat! They thought they could live of the algae in the tank! and the list goes on, and on, and on. But I have to shop there 'cause there's really no where else within 300km's of me!

So the moral of the story is research, research, research and never ever, ever impulse buy anything, including plants, period!

Edit -> After my tank had cycled, I started feeding my fish twice a day, morning and evening and then I usually fast them on Sunday's when I do my tank clean.

 

[rdd1952]

As mentioned, you've gotten good advice. The only thing I will add is don't ever trust a fish store employee when they tell you about stocking. There are exceptions and after you have been in the hobby for a while and get aquainted with the LFS in your area you will know which ones to trust. You are most likely to get good advice from true fish stores than from the chain pet stores like Petsmart, Petco and Walmart. Most of the time the people working in the fish department don' know any more about fish than the average person. Do your research online or ask questions here.