Some Beginner Questions

[Miles_hot]

Hi there, I've just come across the idea of planted tanks and have read the "why we don't fishless cycle with plants" primer with interest. I've got a couple of general questions about planted tanks which I hope you can answer:

1) When you've planted the aquarium up with 75%+ coverage of the substrate how on earth do you see the fish? Looking at some of the (amazing) displays of greenery I struggle to work out how you'd see the fish I assume that for some it is the verdant planting which is the attraction? Or am I worrying needlessly?

2) I have assumed that we will want to build some sort of rocky backdrop with some ledges etc for plants but for the lack of cycling it seems that 75% is the minimum - given that a bunch of rocks will take up space I assume that this would have to be counted in the 25% bare ground? I'm guessing that ledges for plants etc will help offset this "cost"?

3) The fish-less cycle appears to rely on me being a surrogate fish and putting x drops of ammonia into the water (i.e. pretending to poo in the water for Y fish). Measurements are then taken to work out when the tank would be suitable for fish to take over the pooing role. As I understand it in a planted situation the tank becomes fish friendly very quickly (possibly instantly) however as a beginner would it make sense to take measurements to see the stabilisation happen? Would it be sensible to still to the surrogate fish bit with ammonia if I don't immediately start to stock so that the tank system "sees" fish or do they do something other than just excrete ammonia?

Many thanks

Miles

 

[Miles_hot]

were the questions just too stupid? I hope not

Miles

 

[Curiosity101]

1) When you've planted the aquarium up with 75%+ coverage of the substrate how on earth do you see the fish? Looking at some of the (amazing) displays of greenery I struggle to work out how you'd see the fish I assume that for some it is the verdant planting which is the attraction? Or am I worrying needlessly?

^^ Often the move cover/safety you give fish the happier they will be to come out into the open cause they know that 'safety' is literally a short dash away.

2) I have assumed that we will want to build some sort of rocky backdrop with some ledges etc for plants but for the lack of cycling it seems that 75% is the minimum - given that a bunch of rocks will take up space I assume that this would have to be counted in the 25% bare ground? I'm guessing that ledges for plants etc will help offset this "cost"?

I don't know enough about setting up a tank that heavily planted to be able to say.

3) The fish-less cycle appears to rely on me being a surrogate fish and putting x drops of ammonia into the water (i.e. pretending to poo in the water for Y fish). Measurements are then taken to work out when the tank would be suitable for fish to take over the pooing role. As I understand it in a planted situation the tank becomes fish friendly very quickly (possibly instantly) however as a beginner would it make sense to take measurements to see the stabilisation happen? Would it be sensible to still to the surrogate fish bit with ammonia if I don't immediately start to stock so that the tank system "sees" fish or do they do something other than just excrete ammonia?

Like I said I don't know enough about setting up a planted tank to give you the 'correct' advice. But I will say this, it's not unheard of to have a mass die back if you buy lots and lots of plants all in one go. Die back = high ammonia for awhile which is obviously bad for fish, so if it were me then I'd add ammonia artificially first. That way the plants get a chance to get actively growing before you stock with fish. And if you do have a large amount of die back then it wont be too much of a problem.

 

[Miles_hot]

Thanks for that - I figured that I would "cycle" the tank with the plants in and drop ammonia in to simulate the fish. That way I wouldn't be risking them and assuming that the whole planted thing speeds up the cycling no end (and a kind offer of some mature media) I will not have to do it for long anyway.

Interesting point in passing about the die back - does that mean I have to slowly introduce plants or was that only because not enough food (ammonia) was going in>

Thanks for the observation about fish and safety - I hadn't though of that (I'd just assumed they'd spend the whole time hiding).

Miles