Sickly Gourami

[sparrow6190]

I had 2 pink kissing gourami in a 20 gallon tank and took one out because the other fish were beating it up because it is sick, I placed him in a 100 gallon tank.

he isn't moving hardly at all, he sits on the bottom of the tank slightly tilted and the water current can move him easily, his fins haven't moved at all and he is not gasping the way a kissing gourami should, he is making small gasps, and I think he is gonna kick the bucket soon.....

what can I do to try and save him?

 

[sylvia]

What else is in the 100 gallon? Is it cycled/established? Are the water parameters any different from those in the 20 gallon?

Before I actualy try to answer your question, you need to be aware that 20 gallons is not adequate for any number of kissing gouramies and that they grow to a good 10" if cared for properly. You are going to have to move the other kisser out of the 20 as soon as possible as well (but lets see how things go with the distressed one first).

Back to the point - considering the stress the fish must have already been under due to the bullying, my guess would be that the mvoe has caused it the distress you are describing. It may be a difference in pH, temperature or perhaps particularly high/low levels of ammonia, ntirIte or nitrAte. Any sudden changes to the environment could have shocked the fish. Besides checking the water to see if the problem can be fixed, there isn't much you can do about shock like this.

If, however, the fish is showing symptoms of disease (eg: bloated appearance, stringy, white poo or pineconing of scales), then you can certainly treat for it - but you'll have to provide a much mroe detailed description if that's the course of action you think you need to take.

Personaly, I think it's probably just shock from the tank change (check the pH especialy) and the fish may still recover if you are careful not to stress it further. Next time you mvoe a fish to a new tank, first acclimatise it slowly by adding very small amounts of water to a bag/bucket containing the fish' original water. Especialy with gouramies, fluctuations in pH can be deadly.

Hold on - I re-read your post and you're saying that the other fish was beating this kisser up 'because he was sick'? I should first point out that the reason the fish is sick is probably that the other was bullying it (stress leads to disease) - not the other way round Kissing gouramies are territorial and, in as small a tank as that, it wouldn't be surprising for one fish to dominate and bully the other.

Regardless, if the fish was already sick before you moved it to the 100 gallon, the problem can't be shock. Judging by its current behaviour (and the sort of diseases gouramies are prone to), it probably has an internal bacterial infection. however, it would help if you gave me some mroe information - for example, how's its appetite? Is it bloated; do its scales seem to stick out? Any sign of red streaks on the fins or body? Does it go up for air at all? How is it color-wise? Are its fins intact? Any red, white or black edges to the fins? Do the eyes look normal - no buldging or reddening? Before it started lying on teh bottom, did it swim in a head-down position? How was its appetite then? What color is its poo? What do you usualy feed it? Have you treated the tank for anything recently? What other fish are in the tank? Have any been sick in the past? Anything you can say will help. Also, if you can get a picture, that may be useful.

What I would do right now is move him into an isolation tank in case the problem is the 100 gallon. If you can test your water and the difference is not in water parameters, I would still reccomend you do a water change (a small one) just in case something else has gotten into your water (it would, however, have affected any other fish in the tank as well if that's the case).

However, if he was already sick, the problem is probably an infection which, by now, sounds to have taken hold quite strongly. Again, isolating the fish and treating it with a broad-spectrum antibiotic may help but it's probably too late. You can also treat within the tank if you can't isolate.

 

[sparrow6190]

I made another thread in the Tropical Fish emergency forum

I went to the store and bought a 2 1/2 gallon tank and melafix and prime.

Could I remove some of the tank water from the 100 i put in the 2 1/2 gallon tank and place some from the 20 gallon into the 2 1/2?

I had tried to acclimate the fish by placing him in a bag and adding small amounts of water every so often.

The fish was already in this condition when I placed him in, it doesn't seem that it has changed, though it may have gotten worse.

The fish is very pale, he is thin, won't eat, scales don't stick out, no red streaks that I notice on the body, it doesn't go up for air at all, it was laying at the bottom of the tank all day today, it was swimming around a bit yesterday in the 20 gallon, I had a pink kissing gourami die in that tank as well from what looks like a similar cause.

I have him in the 2 1/2 tank and I added melafix and 2 drops of prime.

I think it is too late now... if only I had known earlier, and acted sooner....

 

[sylvia]

Let me first say that the reason you're having trouble with kissers in the 20 gallon is the size of the tank - never try to keep a kissing gourami in anything smaller than a 30 again, let alone 2.

Anyway, for the isolation tank, don't add tank water. Provided the water parameters in your tank(s) are similar to your tap water, just some de-chlorinated tap water at the same temp. will do. That way you are also using the cleanest water possible.

The isolation tank - does it have a heater and filter? It needs to or else you'll just stress the fish even more. If it does, add some filter media from your 100 gallon (assuming it's established and has fish - otherwise use media from the 20) to the isolation tank's filter. That way you'll get an instant cycle so you don't need to worry about ammonia spikes. Add some gravel if you can as well - it will both help introduce good bacteria and make the kisser feel more comfortable.

Next you need to go and buy an anti-internal bacteria med. (ie an antibiotic). Unfortunately, melafix won't do anything - it actualy only contains something like 1% active ingredients anyway - the rest is just plant extracts. It's useful for keeping a fish calm when you're just adding it to a tank but, especialy in this case, it'll do mroe harm than good as it limmits the amount of oxygen that the water can contain and that's something you don't want when your gourami isn't going up for air.

Good luck! Though there is a chance this fish won't survive, you'll at least get a chance to prevent something similar from happening to the other kisser.

 

[sparrow6190]

he died that night

 

[sylvia]

Oh well - sorry for your loss Just keep an eye on your other kisser now and try to find him/her a larger tank.

 

[sparrow6190]

I put him in the 100 gallon tank, he really likes it, but not as much as my catfish or 2 cichlids
Gouramis just look like stupid fish, but they are still very cool, i think I should get him a tank mate...

 

[sylvia]

He probably won't appreciate a tankmate (assuming it's even a 'he' lol). If you do add another anyway, make sure it's the same size as your current one.

 

[sparrow6190]

would the pink kissing gourami possible group with another pink kissing gourami?

the meanest fish in there is the electric yellow cichlid, and he doesn't ever attack the gourami but is a little territorial, though it will probably settle more in the future, its a relatively new community.

 

[sylvia]

No, like I said, kissers are territorial and, while keeping them with african cichlids is probably not the best thing, the gourami will grow to be bigger than your cichlids and will be able to take care of itself. If you add another, they won't be 'freinds' - teh current one will view the new one as an intruder and they could well fight or you'll have a repetition of what occured before - with the new fish likely becoming stresed and catching diseases.

 

[Nickelback]

Hi again Sylvia(Golden Gourami topic)Well I have two Pink Kissing Gouramis and they are housed together.I bought them at the exact same size but one is now alot bigger than the other one.They were babies when I got them and now the bigger one is really bossy and chases the other one around quicker than the speed of light They both do the big kissing action alot at first the smaller one was a wimp but now it fights back a bit more.Does this kissing action mean they are both males fighting over their territory.How do I sex them?Should I seperate them and keep them in seperate tanks or is their antics just normal.The tank their in is a four foot tank about 200 litres.Any responses would be great

 

[sylvia]

Hi

Unfortunately, kissers can't be sexed visualy. You'd only know if they bred.

The kissing behaviour is seen between both males and females and is a display of aggression/territoriality just as you said. It's quite common and usualy relatively harmless but it can be stressful if it is constantly happening.

Your tank, luckily, if it's 200 litres (approx. 50 gallons), is large enough for your kissers to co-exist but you may want to try adding some more hiding places/plants etc to maybe try to calm them down a bit. If they are very aggressive towards each other and fight very often (ie: not just an occasional lip-lock once every couple of weeks ), it may be best to move one out. In particular, if you notice any damage around either kisser's mouth area or if either is acting slightly lethargic or not eating normaly for whatever reason, it may be time to find one a new home/tank or you risk them becoming very susceptible to disease and, obviously, disease can lead to death - which of course you don't want

 

[Nickelback]

Thanks sylvia you have been great advice for me all the way Damn I was really hoping to find out the sex as I'm so curious Never mind.I don't think I'll ever find out with this pair as with the way they carry on I don't think there's any chance of breeding Must be two of the one sex.They are such characters though just love 'em. All the best sylvia