Sick Oranda - Dropsy :(

[rich_london]

Hey there, shame my first post on here has to be because of an ill fish

I have had my red-head oranda for yeeears, its one of my favourite fish, and when i came home from work tonight i was distraught to see it swimming around aimlessly, looked closely and could see the dreaded scales sticking out slightly... Im assuming dropsy

Thing that puzzles me is that he was absolutely fine last night, didnt act any differently than normal, and tonight its like he's suddenly been struck by this illness

All levels are fine and normal, I did a partial water change just now and put a dosage of Esha 2000 fungus, finrot and bacteria treatment in... it states it cures dropsy but im not so sure. Any ideas what i can do to save him?

This pic was taken about 6 months ago... the lazy little fish

 

[WILDER]

Adorable fish, sorry but once scales start to stick out that the last stage of dropsy organ failure, you could try an epson salt bath to try and draw the fluids out.

Not the writer of this information below.
Dropsy



Symptoms:

This disease is very common among African Cichlids, and is commonly called "Malawi Bloat," even though it affects fish from Lakes Tanganyika and Victoria. Dropsy is also very common within the Carp family and among Anabantids. It is characterized by swelling of the body and especially abdomen, which causes the scales to stand out with a pine cone appearance. Eyes may protrude or cave in. Reddening at the vent and/or base of fins may be observable as well as body ulcers and long pale feces. In advanced cases, skin discoloration and scale loss may also occur. Sick fish will not show any desire for food. They will often hang near the bottom, resting on the gravel, or at the top, gasping for air. In the latter stages of this disease, the fish may lose its equilibrium and hence ability to swim properly.



Cause:

Three main causes for Dropsy have been identified. The over use of salt (NaCl), prolonged exposure to poor water conditions, and improper diet, which lead to a parasitic infection. Other causes include poisoning, internal injuries and cancerous tumors. The swelling is not the disease itself, but rather a symptom, which is caused by a build-up of fluids in the body cavity due to internal organ failure.



Treatment:

Treatment of this disease is difficult, as by the time it is recognized, permanent damage to the internal organs of the fish will have occurred. Immediate treatment must be performed if there is to be any chance for survival. Metronidazole (Flagyl) and or Clout are the best medications for treatment of Dropsy. Notwithstanding, not much is known for certain about the etiology of this disease and some experienced aquarists use antibiotics to fight Dropsy. For oxytetracycline, baths of 20-100 mg/litre for five days is suggested. For tetracycline hydrochloride, treat with baths of 40-100 mg/litre for five days. And for minocycline hydrochloride a dilution of 250mg/10 gallons of water is recommended. On day 2 change all the water and add the medicine again at the same dose for another 2 days. Increase aeration during treatment. Do not use minocycline a third time in a row. Caution: tetracyclines are photo sensitive so turn the tank lights off during treatment and cover the whole tank with a blanket. If the fish is still eating, you can soak the food in a concentrated solution of the antibiotic before feeding.

You can read more about this disease, treatment, and how to prevent it in the future by reading our article: Malawi Bloat.

 

[tttnjfttt]

You can try adding salt to the water and an internal antibacterial medicine, but i'm afraid it isn't sounding too good for him.

 

[black angel]

If you want to give it a try then you will need to quarantine him in an 8 to 10 gallon tank or tub with a heater and either a small filter or airstone to keep the water circulated. Add the epsom salt at 1/8th of a teaspoon per 3 gallons UK. Slowly raise the temperature to 80f. The temperature is critical. If the fish survives then you will need to keep it at this temperature for the rest of its life or it will relapse and pinecone again.

Do you gravel vac the main tank and has the filter got a large sponge to keep a good bacterial colony on?

 

[rich_london]

yes i gravel vac the tank when i change 1/5 of the water every couple of weeks, and my internal filter has a fairly large foam filter in it so yes i presume bacteria are at good levels...

Had these 4 fish in my 60litre tank for maybe 5 / 6 years and theyve always been fine, not changed anything recently, i guess it could be of old age, because i didnt know his age when i first bought him? Would it harm the other fish by keeping him in the same tank? (till he possibly passes away?)

The poor thing is now resting against a plant at an awkward angle, moving his eyes to look at me when i go up to the tank as if to say 'help me'

 

[black angel]

Just want to point out that the tank is really only big enough for one fancy goldfish.
The reason your fish is ill now is that as the fish have grown you havent kept up with the maintenance. If you only had one fish in the tank then you would still need to do two 25% water changes a week to keep the gravel clean.
Now you have four largeish fish in there and the bad bacteria has been allowed to grow and the fish has become sick with a bacterial kidney disease.
If you dont want to help your fish get better then the best you can do is at least stop the suffering. You can get clove oil at any chemist.
It will only be a matter of time as well before the other fish get ill if you dont get them a bigger tank and do more water changes.
Fancy goldfish can live for 15 years or more though the average is 10 to 12.

 

[rich_london]

If i dont want to help my fish get better?!!?!?

Yeah, because i'd love to see them suffer. Not. What on earth makes you think i dont want to save him? I dont want my fish to die. Theyve all been in the same tank, at the same size, for 5 / 6 years as I said. Surely if the tank was too cramped this problem would have been apparent some time ago? My local fish centre, who are knowledgeable people, seem to reckon 6 similar sized fish can live happily in that tank. Are US litres slightly less than UK litres?

 

[Shelly_Otterkin]

If you want to give it a try then you will need to quarantine him in an 8 to 10 gallon tank or tub with a heater and either a small filter or airstone to keep the water circulated. Add the epsom salt at 1/8th of a teaspoon per 3 gallons UK. Slowly raise the temperature to 80f. The temperature is critical. If the fish survives then you will need to keep it at this temperature for the rest of its life or it will relapse and pinecone again.

Do you gravel vac the main tank and has the filter got a large sponge to keep a good bacterial colony on?

I have used this before and it worked fine. If you can not use a smaller tank you can use fish tank salt at 1 TBLS per 5 gal. and raise temp in tank 5f. Before you do this do a good vac with a water change. If it does not work for the sick one it will help the others from getting sick. I have had a overstocked GF tank for 6 years. It is a 30g. with 4, 6" fish in it now. I run 2 HOB filters in there. Both filters are the size most people would run by them self. I also do a 25% water change once a week. What is your set up?

 

[WILDER]

Black angel is good with goldfish so please take her advice and i agree what she had to say.

 

[black angel]

Thanks Wilder.

Rich London > You said in your post that you could keep him in the tank until he passes away. Not my fault if thats not what you meant.

As for the pet shop boys, all they want is for you to buy more fish when yours die.
As for them being in there for 5 or 6 years then your oldest fish should be around 8 inches long if not more excluding the tail.

As the fish grow so the amount of waste grows as well and your filter wont be able to cope. Just because the water looks clean doesnt mean it is and bacteria levels cant be tested for.

I take it you get 0 for ammonia and nitrites before each water change?

Up to you if you give them the home they deserve or not but for fancy goldfish the minimum for each one is around 10 gallons and i'm sure they would like some swimming space.

With keeping fish you dont presume anything. Bacteria is always present in both good and bad forms and if you dont keep up with regular water changes and making sure they arent cramped then bacterial diseases will break out.

American litres are smaller than Uk litres.

 

[rich_london]

sorry, obviously a misunderstanding of what i wrote. All that i meant is that does it harm the other fish if i left him in there, should he not recover and passes away? I dont have the luxury of having another tank and cant bring myself to put him in some horrible little bowl where im sure he wouldnt like to spend his last days...

I already add 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons of water at every water change, should i add a bit more in the tank with the other fish present? Have tried feeding him shelled peas too but he's not interested, he's lying on his side in my floating tank just so that the small pleco doesnt attack his fins when he's lying on the gravel. It doesnt look good for him

 

[black angel]

So what you were asking was, is it contagious? Now i get you.

It can be contagious if the fish get into contact with the bodily fluids, ie if the plec eats it and the rest have a nibble.
The cause though is what you should be looking for, so do more water changes.

As for a cure, ive only heard of high temperatures and epsom salt over a period of months being effective against dropsy and then its only if its caught in the early stages.
I would cut back on the salt as it wont be helping the fish.

If the pineconing is getting worse then I'm afraid it may be wiser to euthenize the fish as you cant quarantine him.

Sorry

 

[TF Keeper UK]

American litres are smaller than Uk litres.

I thought litres were the same the world over? I know US gallons and UK gallons are different, but litres as well?

I agree with Black Angel - I've had platy with dropsy. I didn't realise til it was too late. I used the clove oil method. I don't see the point of prolonging suffering.

 

[Shelly_Otterkin]

If you try the salt and heat PLEASE do not walk away from the heater for more then a hour at a time. Keep looking at it to make sure the temp does not go to high the first day.(from some one who just tried to cook a sick fish)

 

[rich_london]

I think i asked the question about litres because i assumed it was a US forum. Now having a look at everyones locations, most people are from the UK