Sick Gourami

[ariadne]

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Tank size: 80 L (20 gallons)
pH: 7ish
ammonia: None 2 weeks ago.
nitrite: Dont know
nitrate: Don't know

tank temp: 26 degrees C

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior):

Hi. I only set up tank around 5 weeks ago. I treated the water for chlorine and put in the 'good bacteria'. Let the tank run for a week before I put in any fish. I started out with 1 gourami, 1 angel fish and a bristlenose catfish (and 3 plants). The gourami was acting strange from the outset, hanging around in corners and lying on the bottom. At first I thought it was just stressed due to the move, but suddenly, after just one week the other 2 fish died within 24 hours of each other, and the gourami got substantially worse, lying on the bottom until it died 2 days later. Funnily enough, none of the fish floated when they died. I put some antibacterial in, but too late.

So, after having no fish for 3 days I decided to try again at a different aquarium. My water tested ok for PH and ammonia at the aquarium so I figured the old aquarium must have sold me a sick gourami, especially since the lady chose it for me. Shame on them!

However, after starting again, I am afraid it is something I am doing...

I started out again with 2 dwarf gouramis, 2 angels and a bristlenose 2 weeks ago along with an extra plant. All was well, so a week later I bought another gourami. Now one of my other gourami's is sick.

3 days ago I saw it had a large red patch of flesh, like it had hurt itself on something, on its belly. It was still acting fine, except that it liked to hide more than the other two, more dominant gouramis. The flesh patch has now faded to a light pink and looks as though it is healing. However, when I got up this morning, the gourami was floating near the surface in some plants and not moving. I thought it was dead until I fed the others. It ate normally when I fed the fish, but swims funny with hits head in the air. It hasn't moved from the surface now for the last 2 hours. The last couple of days it has also seemed more pale and grey than usual.

I am worried! I watched my other gourmai die slowly and it was horrible. Is this something I am doing??

Two unrelated things: The wood that one of my plants is growing on has some white algae blooms about 5cm diamater hanging off it in several places (although the rest of the tank is clear), and I spotted a couple of small snail-like things crawling round my tank, introduced by accident I think with the new plant.


2 weeks ago, before I bought the new fish I did a 20% change and had treated the water with an antibacterial/fungal.

So right now there are 3 dwarf gouramis, 1 bristlenose and 2 angels, plus 4 plants and a plastic anchor.

I have put in more antibacterial - It is called Promethyasul and is for fungal, parasitic or bacterial disease. I can't accurately test my ph/ammonia now because the medicine has made the water blue so it screws up my tests.

Any help would be most appreciated.

-Chloe

 

[mommyof2bettas]

do a water test once again, water params in ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and Ph, next time, I suggest getting a q/h tank, it will help with these situations, and you should have cycled your tank to be on the safe side, bacteria things don't always work. Do you put dechlorinator when you change your water?

 

[ariadne]

do a water test once again, water params in ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and Ph, next time, I suggest getting a q/h tank, it will help with these situations, and you should have cycled your tank to be on the safe side, bacteria things don't always work. Do you put dechlorinator when you change your water?

Sorry - what's a q/h tank?

I am not sure what you mean by 'cycle' the tank. I did exactly what the aquarium people told me...put in the chemicals and let the filter run for over a week before putting in any fish. Or do you mean after the first fish died?

When the colour dies down I have my own PH and Amonia test kits so I can test that stuff then.

Yes, I did add in the dechlorinator when I changed my water.

 

[mommyof2bettas]

q/h=qurantine/hospital tank, you can put new fish in there so that if they are sick they won't spread the disease to any old members of your tank.
cycling is making bacteria build up in the tank, you can read up on the pinned topic on cycling in the beginners section.
Try to get nitrate and nitrite test kits as soon as you can.
Sounds like your last gourami had an ulcer, the others might have died from stress or bad water stats.

 

[ariadne]

q/h=qurantine/hospital tank, you can put new fish in there so that if they are sick they won't spread the disease to any old members of your tank.
cycling is making bacteria build up in the tank, you can read up on the pinned topic on cycling in the beginners section.
Try to get nitrate and nitrite test kits as soon as you can.
Sounds like your last gourami had an ulcer, the others might have died from stress or bad water stats.

Hmm. The aquarium people never mentioned cycling! If I had known about it, I woulda done it for sure.

With the first batch of fish, the water stats were ok - at least the aquarium told me they were ok. A test after the fish died at a new aquarium also said the water was ok (ph and ammonia wise)- so I figure the first gourami was sick when I got it and it spread to the other fish.

The second sick gourami just suddenly sunk to the bottom and died. =(

I will take him back to the pet shop, as they told me if their fish died and the water was ok they would replace them for me.

Thanks for your help. Does adding antibacterial kill all the good bacteria in the tank?

 

[mommyof2bettas]

it shouldn't, but remember, most pet shops don't actually know much about fish-keeping, they just want to sell you the fish. You should double check on the forum to be sure. Sounds like your water stats are ok so I wouldn't worry, my mistake

 

[ariadne]

it shouldn't, but remember, most pet shops don't actually know much about fish-keeping, they just want to sell you the fish. You should double check on the forum to be sure. Sounds like your water stats are ok so I wouldn't worry, my mistake

Thanks again. Now that I have the tank set up, but didn't cycle it, is it too late? Or with the fish living in there for 4 weeks now should there be enough bacteria?

 

[mommyof2bettas]

yep, should be ok,as long as your stats are stable and good, there shouldn't be any problems.

 

[Jozlyn]

Usually takes longer than 4 weeks to cycle with fish. And given that you had 6 and now have 5 fish, that's a lot of waste that your bacteria needs to deal with. With the amonia gone you will now have nitrItes they take longer to drop as the bacteria takes longer to develop.

You really, really need to test for nitrites and nitrates. These are toxic to fish and will kill them given enough time.

Your ultimate goal is Amonia = 0, Nitrite = 0 and Nitrate = 10 - 20. When you have those readings your tank will be fully cycled and ready for fish.

Do daily water changes until you get your test kits of around 50%

 

[ariadne]

Usually takes longer than 4 weeks to cycle with fish. And given that you had 6 and now have 5 fish, that's a lot of waste that your bacteria needs to deal with. With the amonia gone you will now have nitrItes they take longer to drop as the bacteria takes longer to develop.

You really, really need to test for nitrites and nitrates. These are toxic to fish and will kill them given enough time.

Your ultimate goal is Amonia = 0, Nitrite = 0 and Nitrate = 10 - 20. When you have those readings your tank will be fully cycled and ready for fish.

Do daily water changes until you get your test kits of around 50%

Ok. So I went to the aquarium and they said the gourami looked like it had a disease common to gouramis because of the spot on its belly. They also said that if the other gouramis had been biting the sick one they might be sick too. A test for nitrites said that they were a bit high.

I did a 20% water change and added a chemical that gets rid of ammonia/nitrites. I also raised to temp to 28 degrees because apparently this is better for the fish.

However, now another of my gouramis (a blue) is acting strangely. Just seems a bit lethargic and is hanging round the surface. No visible marks like the first gourami, although the abdomen does seem a bit swollen compared to the flame gourami. EDIT: Yesterday I noticed stringy white poo coming from my gourami, so I think this is definately internal bacterial.

Should I put in more antibiacterial? I don't even know if it's working.

Actually - probably a silly question, but I've heard 'salt' refered to in here a few times. Is this special aquarium salt or any old salt? Can it help my gouramis? Thanks

 

[ariadne]

Usually takes longer than 4 weeks to cycle with fish. And given that you had 6 and now have 5 fish, that's a lot of waste that your bacteria needs to deal with. With the amonia gone you will now have nitrItes they take longer to drop as the bacteria takes longer to develop.

You really, really need to test for nitrites and nitrates. These are toxic to fish and will kill them given enough time.

Your ultimate goal is Amonia = 0, Nitrite = 0 and Nitrate = 10 - 20. When you have those readings your tank will be fully cycled and ready for fish.

Do daily water changes until you get your test kits of around 50%

Ok. So I went to the aquarium and they said the gourami looked like it had a disease common to gouramis because of the spot on its belly. They also said that if the other gouramis had been biting the sick one they might be sick too. A test for nitrites said that they were a bit high.

I did a 20% water change and added a chemical that gets rid of ammonia/nitrites. I also raised to temp to 28 degrees because apparently this is better for the fish.

However, now another of my gouramis (a blue) is acting strangely. Just seems a bit lethargic and is hanging round the surface. No visible marks like the first gourami, although the abdomen does seem a bit swollen compared to the flame gourami. EDIT: Yesterday I noticed stringy white poo coming from my gourami, so I think this is definately internal bacterial.

Should I put in more antibiacterial? I don't even know if it's working.

Actually - probably a silly question, but I've heard 'salt' refered to in here a few times. Is this special aquarium salt or any old salt? Can it help my gouramis? Thanks

Ok. added aquarium salt but my second fish still died =(

I have only 1 gourami, 2 angels and 2 bristlenose left. I am worried that because I didn't cycle the tank I may loose more fish to disease. I have now tested for ammonia and it is 0 (I put in ammonia and nitrite remover because my nitrites were high). pH is 7, and temperature is at 29 degrees. I saw the article on fish cycling but I was confused because all it seemed to say was do 20% water changes every day. Should I be changing my water every day? I am also confused because if ammonia gets broken down into nitrites, and I have nitrites in my tank, does that mean I have the bacteria, or are my plants just doing a good job?


Thanks.

 

[VMcK]

Hi Ariadne,
The term 'cycling' a tank refers to the time required for bacteria to develop and deal with the ammonia/nitrite levels in your water. The way it works is some bacteria develop in your tank (mostly in your filter media). One type of bacteria transforms your ammonia into nitrite and another one transforms your nitrite into nitrate.
Both ammonia and nitrite are extremely poisonous for your fish, whereas some nitrate is not bad for the fish and also a food for your plants.
As long as the mentioned bacterias above have not developed enough to deal with the tank population, you need to do daily water changes in order to keep the ammonia and nitrite levels down. Once the tank is "cycled", then you can revert back to one change a week or so.
If you want to add fish to your tank, take it slowly and only add a few fish at the time, so that the bacteria can develop accordingly.
There are various ways of cycling a tank : with fish or without fish. In your case, since you already have fish in the tank ... it's fish-cycling
Your nitrite levels seem to be up ; you are nearly there. Keep changing some of the water daily and you will find that the cycling will complete very soon.

I hope this clears up your confusion on the nitrogen-cycling process. This subject has amply been dealt with on many discussion forums and also on the web.

VMcK

PS : 26deg is ok for a tropical community fish aquarium - 28 might be a little too high for normal conditions : it accelerate the fish's metabolism which is a benefit if they are sick but it also shortens their life span

 

[ariadne]

Hi Ariadne,
The term 'cycling' a tank refers to the time required for bacteria to develop and deal with the ammonia/nitrite levels in your water. The way it works is some bacteria develop in your tank (mostly in your filter media). One type of bacteria transforms your ammonia into nitrite and another one transforms your nitrite into nitrate.
Both ammonia and nitrite are extremely poisonous for your fish, whereas some nitrate is not bad for the fish and also a food for your plants.
As long as the mentioned bacterias above have not developed enough to deal with the tank population, you need to do daily water changes in order to keep the ammonia and nitrite levels down. Once the tank is "cycled", then you can revert back to one change a week or so.
If you want to add fish to your tank, take it slowly and only add a few fish at the time, so that the bacteria can develop accordingly.
There are various ways of cycling a tank : with fish or without fish. In your case, since you already have fish in the tank ... it's fish-cycling
Your nitrite levels seem to be up ; you are nearly there. Keep changing some of the water daily and you will find that the cycling will complete very soon.

I hope this clears up your confusion on the nitrogen-cycling process. This subject has amply been dealt with on many discussion forums and also on the web.

VMcK

PS : 26deg is ok for a tropical community fish aquarium - 28 might be a little too high for normal conditions : it accelerate the fish's metabolism which is a benefit if they are sick but it also shortens their life span

Thanks for that. Yes; I'd seen plenty of information on HOW to cycle a tank, but most articles glossed over the why - extactly how it works (other than it lets bacteria grow to eat the ammonia). Instead of doing daily water changes (which I am now) could I just use my waster remover chemical? Or would that mean that the bacteria turning nitrites into nirates wouldnt grow cos I'd have got rid of all their food?

Am I beginning to understand this? lol.

 

[Jozlyn]

Please stop using the chemical that removes amonia. If there is no amonia or nitrite present then there is nothing to feed your bacteria on and they will die and your tank will NEVER cycle.

Get yourself a set of liquid test kits for Amonia, Nitrite and Nitrate, test your water daily and do daily water changes of up to 50% unitl you have no amonia, no nitrites and around 10 - 20 nitrate.

Initially you will get amonia readings, then these will drop and you'll get nitrite readings, then these will drop and you then you will get nitrate readings. There are a lot of variables involved but I would estimate that this would take around six weeks.

 

[vinylman]

I wouldn't buy any more Dwarf Gouramis for now - they're prone to a fatal Iridovirus. Don't go to your LFS for advice, ask here. No one here will take a penny from you or try to sell you miracle liquids.