Should I Still Use Rowahos Phosphate Remover While I Have Plants?

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watertown28

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I had that great brown diatoms (sp?)outbreak in a few of my tanks. I have been trying my hardest to get it under control. So I went and got a tub of  Phosphate remover that I have been using.
 
Okay so I finally got a bunch of real plants. Wisteria, swords, java and a few others that I cant recall of the top of my head, planted in 2 tanks.
 
Converted to sand also FINALLY! Much easier to clean than I thought, but the main purpose was mainly for the plants, which things did okay in the gravel, but I like corys and loachs, and of course you really need sand for them anyways.

From my understanding plants need the PO4 too right? I think there are the organics and the inorganics... that I am not sure about, and if that is the case, does the remover take them both out?
 
I have tried plants before and still have huge algae outbreaks .... from the diatoms to the brown hair stuff. It eventually takes over the plant leaves and there I sit with dead and dying plants, and makes the work much more due to cleaning not only the algae but trying to clean the leaves too.
 
My lights are 4x CFLs, 1 foot off the top of the tanks....typical 75 gallon tanks for height. The CFLs are 2x 100 watt and 2 x 75 watt, daylight... 6500K.
 
Before when I was having issues with algae also, I was using just 2x T8 40w daylights 6500K, and also had gravel.
 
Hi, I have a huge phosphate problem as it's reads at 1.6ppm out of my tap and goes off the scale in the tank. This has caused me major problems with black beard algae. Once I discovered the PO4 problem I added a remover to my filter. My tank has been running with a remover for about a year now and there's no problem with my live plants. In fact I currently have one of my amazon swords with a flower and about 6 little plantlets growing on it. 
 
PO4 removers are unlikely to remove all of the phosphate if it is really high. I change out my remover about once a month and I've never got it below 0.4ppm The remover has the capability to remove some but once it is 'full' it stops removing and needs to be changed. It's best used to control the PO4 level and not remove PO4 entirely.
 
I would test the tap water and see what the PO4 is from the tap, then test the tank. Anything above 0.8ppm is in the danger level. High phosphate can also make fish sickly and weak aswell as cause algae. JBL do a very good PO4 test kit - it's the one I use.
 
There are two types of phosphate remover on the market. There is the iron based which is orange in colour and there is the aluminium based which is white. I've found the iron based product doesn't work as well as the aluminium based but research has shown that that might be down to my soft water. The aluminium based product seems to be more effective if your water is soft and acidic.
 
Hopefully there's some info there that you can use
smile.png
 
Akasha72 said:
Hi, I have a huge phosphate problem as it's reads at 1.6ppm out of my tap and goes off the scale in the tank. This has caused me major problems with black beard algae. Once I discovered the PO4 problem I added a remover to my filter. My tank has been running with a remover for about a year now and there's no problem with my live plants. In fact I currently have one of my amazon swords with a flower and about 6 little plantlets growing on it. 
 
PO4 removers are unlikely to remove all of the phosphate if it is really high. I change out my remover about once a month and I've never got it below 0.4ppm The remover has the capability to remove some but once it is 'full' it stops removing and needs to be changed. It's best used to control the PO4 level and not remove PO4 entirely.
 
I would test the tap water and see what the PO4 is from the tap, then test the tank. Anything above 0.8ppm is in the danger level. High phosphate can also make fish sickly and weak aswell as cause algae. JBL do a very good PO4 test kit - it's the one I use.
 
There are two types of phosphate remover on the market. There is the iron based which is orange in colour and there is the aluminium based which is white. I've found the iron based product doesn't work as well as the aluminium based but research has shown that that might be down to my soft water. The aluminium based product seems to be more effective if your water is soft and acidic.
 
Hopefully there's some info there that you can use
smile.png
 
 
I have tried testing it, but I think my kit is expired to be honest. Its the API one... from 07 it think. They dont give a clear date but the lot on it is 64A0507. Ticks me off cuz I bought it a few years ago not knowing, so it might have been expired long before I even bought it..
Yeah the media is brown, iron based. Really a pain when you put a few scoops into the reactor.... have to clean that for sure cuz its DUSTY.... I made the mistake of not cleaning it the first time I used it and it blew all the powder around in the tank... no harm but man it made a mess.
Another thing I really dont like about this brand I have it gives you weights on what to use, no scooper... nothing. I dont have a scale at home like that lol.
 
The remover I use is by NTLabs - your sig doesn't say where about's you are but it's readily available in the U.K and a bag costs £15. It lasts about 6 months or so for me so it's an expensive game but it's cheaper than say R.O water.
 
The NTLabs one doesn't give you a scoop either - this is because you need to measure out how much you need dependent on tank volume. I have a little yogurt pot and I know now that one scoop of that will suffice for my tank. I used to measure it out accurately using my kitchen scales but not now. 
 
I can recommend the JBL test kit for PO4, it's not cheap but it last ages. It comes with a glass phial, Syringe, reagents and reagent measuring spoon and colour card for reading and of course the instructions too. If your API one is from 07 I'd say it's out of date and is probably best thrown away and replaced :)
 
Akasha72 said:
The remover I use is by NTLabs - your sig doesn't say where about's you are but it's readily available in the U.K and a bag costs £15. It lasts about 6 months or so for me so it's an expensive game but it's cheaper than say R.O water.
 
The NTLabs one doesn't give you a scoop either - this is because you need to measure out how much you need dependent on tank volume. I have a little yogurt pot and I know now that one scoop of that will suffice for my tank. I used to measure it out accurately using my kitchen scales but not now. 
 
I can recommend the JBL test kit for PO4, it's not cheap but it last ages. It comes with a glass phial, Syringe, reagents and reagent measuring spoon and colour card for reading and of course the instructions too. If your API one is from 07 I'd say it's out of date and is probably best thrown away and replaced
smile.png
Yeah I need to update my stuff here on the forum, been here long enough lol. This hobby is addicting, can eat so much time due to me loving doing DYI stuff. I am busy setting up all sumps on my 55s now, got 4 of those to do... have the 2x 75 gallons almost done. The one I am working on is a challenge because I built no legs for the table I put it on so its like 6 inches off the ground, getting the sump to work so low to the ground has more or less been a challenge. Best thing is the pump does not have far to pump so lol.
 
Anyways, Ill keep it in there just in case. I will watch my plants and keep adding the liquid fritz every week and see what happens. Really excited about having plants again, just dont want to fight algae like I have.
 
you could look at algae eaters ... things like oto's, certain snails etc. All tanks will get algae - it's part and parcel of the hobby - it's when it get's out of control that it's a problem. 
A small amount is fine and can either be cleaned off by hand or by adding something to eat it. See what kind you get and then do your research. I get a bit of green spot algae now and nothing eats that - not my BN plec, not my oto's or my nerite snails. But the oto's spend all their time cleaning plants of something so they are eating some kind of algae
 
Akasha72 said:
you could look at algae eaters ... things like oto's, certain snails etc. All tanks will get algae - it's part and parcel of the hobby - it's when it get's out of control that it's a problem. 
A small amount is fine and can either be cleaned off by hand or by adding something to eat it. See what kind you get and then do your research. I get a bit of green spot algae now and nothing eats that - not my BN plec, not my oto's or my nerite snails. But the oto's spend all their time cleaning plants of something so they are eating some kind of algae
Yeah I gotten a few of the most common algae. The green dust on the glass, to the blue/green stuff ( that took FOREVER to get rid of ), diatoms, and that black brush stuff. Most common is the black brush that I get. It seems like once it gets on the plant leaves, you can never clean it all off, and most cases for me the plant is dead.
I might have to add a DYI CO2 reactor in that one, for the common problem one is one of the 75 gallon tanks. Knock on wood, the newer 75 gallon has not gotten it yet, but I started with CO2 right off the bat along with a few plants.
 
As for ottos your talking about.... what are they? I hear the name a lot, but I think if I recall they get really big dont they?
 
a few things to answer there - okay Black beard (or black brush) algae omits spores so once you have it in a tank you'll always have it. I found it was the phosphate that caused mine to break out and it got to the point where it covered every surface - even the glass. It would have grown on the fish if they'd stayed still long enough! In the end reducing PO4 helped but I also got myself 3 Siamese Algae Eaters and they ate it. They still eat any that starts to appear and so now my tank is reasonably clear of it. If you have one tank that's new and doesn't have any BBA I'd suggest not adding anything to that tank from the tanks that have BBA - you are then giving it the chance to grow elsewhere.
 
Green spot or dust algae is what I have and seems to be connected to lighting. It's something I notice appearing if my lighting period is out of whack or if I have a tube that needs replacing. I suspect I am due to change my tubes soon as the green dust algae is getting to be a problem.
 
Co2 - this is great stuff is you are planning a planted tank. The plants will thank you for the Co2 addition by growing healthily and fast too.
 
Otocinclus is a good little algae eater and by little I mean entirely that. They are very small fish. Like the Bristlenose plec they have a sucker mouth and they spend all day long cleaning leaves of plants, decor, the glass, just about any surface where the slime coat grows. They won't eat green algae - at least mine never have - but I have seen them eat the brown diatom algae. My Dad is also a fish keeper and his tank got a brown algae problem and we put some oto's in and they cleaned it all off the plant leaves in a couple of weeks.
I need to add caution - even though it's common sense - don't add otocinclus if you have large fish. Otocinclus, like most suckermouthed catfish, have sharp spines which they use to protect themselves from preditors. There has been stories of people finding oto's stuck in the mouth of their angelfish as the angelfish has tried to eat it, the oto has extended it's spines and got itself jammed fast in the angel's gullet. It can only end badly, usually with the death of both fish.
 
Another algae eater to mention would be snails. I have zebra nerites and they are a good addition for eating algae. They come with a down side though as once they are happy and well fed they start laying tiny white eggs everywhere which are hard to remove. I don't mind the eggs. They will only hatch in salt water and so in the freshwater tank they are just a small eyesore - for me though it means my snails are happy and that's what matters.
I'm going by some of the phrases you've used in your replies and I'm guessing you are American? (sorry if I'm guessing wrong) if so then the Apple snail is still available for you and they are great cleaners too. The true apple snail will not eat plants - nor does the netrite snails.
 
Sorry for the essay but hopefully I've given you some useful info :)
 
Akasha72 said:
a few things to answer there - okay Black beard (or black brush) algae omits spores so once you have it in a tank you'll always have it. I found it was the phosphate that caused mine to break out and it got to the point where it covered every surface - even the glass. It would have grown on the fish if they'd stayed still long enough! In the end reducing PO4 helped but I also got myself 3 Siamese Algae Eaters and they ate it. They still eat any that starts to appear and so now my tank is reasonably clear of it. If you have one tank that's new and doesn't have any BBA I'd suggest not adding anything to that tank from the tanks that have BBA - you are then giving it the chance to grow elsewhere.
 
Green spot or dust algae is what I have and seems to be connected to lighting. It's something I notice appearing if my lighting period is out of whack or if I have a tube that needs replacing. I suspect I am due to change my tubes soon as the green dust algae is getting to be a problem.
 
Co2 - this is great stuff is you are planning a planted tank. The plants will thank you for the Co2 addition by growing healthily and fast too.
 
Otocinclus is a good little algae eater and by little I mean entirely that. They are very small fish. Like the Bristlenose plec they have a sucker mouth and they spend all day long cleaning leaves of plants, decor, the glass, just about any surface where the slime coat grows. They won't eat green algae - at least mine never have - but I have seen them eat the brown diatom algae. My Dad is also a fish keeper and his tank got a brown algae problem and we put some oto's in and they cleaned it all off the plant leaves in a couple of weeks.
I need to add caution - even though it's common sense - don't add otocinclus if you have large fish. Otocinclus, like most suckermouthed catfish, have sharp spines which they use to protect themselves from preditors. There has been stories of people finding oto's stuck in the mouth of their angelfish as the angelfish has tried to eat it, the oto has extended it's spines and got itself jammed fast in the angel's gullet. It can only end badly, usually with the death of both fish.
 
Another algae eater to mention would be snails. I have zebra nerites and they are a good addition for eating algae. They come with a down side though as once they are happy and well fed they start laying tiny white eggs everywhere which are hard to remove. I don't mind the eggs. They will only hatch in salt water and so in the freshwater tank they are just a small eyesore - for me though it means my snails are happy and that's what matters.
I'm going by some of the phrases you've used in your replies and I'm guessing you are American? (sorry if I'm guessing wrong) if so then the Apple snail is still available for you and they are great cleaners too. The true apple snail will not eat plants - nor does the netrite snails.
 
Sorry for the essay but hopefully I've given you some useful info
smile.png
Yeah my ramshorn snail outbreak made me not like the snail aspect of it. I have no clue where they came from...  the only thing I can think of is either the gravel I got ( got it from a pet store closing down) or plants that I bought. I never had a snail problem ever until this one. Hench the reason why I got a school of zebra loaches. The snails made me go sand... because I figured I liked loaches and in order to have those I need to have sand.  Tore up the gravel, tossed it into the flower garden, put sand down, now I dont see any snails. I am sure even after a few days those loaches made quick work of them.
 
I guess I can try those other snails too. Netrite snails sound fun from what I read. Though in the problem tank I have Kuhlii's in them, I dont think those would mess with the snails. How many do you need per tank?
 
I have two snails in my 4ft tank but nerites are small so I could have many more if I wanted to. The reason I only have two is I'm worried about the competition for food. The Siamese Algae Eaters are greedy which means my oto's have to compete more for food and so there's less for the snails too ... it's all a knock on effect
 

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