Short Finned Males Sold As Females?

[Didge007]

Last week I bought a little female (what I thought was female) from my LFS. Apart from it massacring my cherry shrimp population there was no issues. I've just bought another two 'females' today and now have a feeling the 'female' from last week and one of these two (if not both) are all short-finned males. I alerted the staff (I know them well) about their being 4 males in the females tank today and they promptly removed them (and put them all in separate betta tanks). I haven't let these new two out of their bags as there is A LOT of flaring happening between the two possible males. I will pop them in separate containers tonight (I don't have many tanks, one will be far too hot for one of them and also contains a gourami) and deal with it tomorrow but any help would be great

If I need to take them back there won't be a problem (other than they are gorgeous!).

 

[Didge007]

Yup, pretty sure all three are males If you don't laugh about it you'll probably cry I suppose. We'll call them blue, red and black for now. Blue is the one I got last week and Red and Black I got today. Black has the torn fins at the moment but am suspected once settled in and healed it will be a looker All have been separated. Now to decide what to do with them, whether to take them back or set up their own little oasis's or see if friends want them. I dare say SOMEONE will want one.

 

[Better is Betta]

Yup, pretty sure all three are males If you don't laugh about it you'll probably cry I suppose. We'll call them blue, red and black for now. Blue is the one I got last week and Red and Black I got today. Black has the torn fins at the moment but am suspected once settled in and healed it will be a looker All have been separated. Now to decide what to do with them, whether to take them back or set up their own little oasis's or see if friends want them. I dare say SOMEONE will want one.

Awwwww! can't you just keep the little guys.

 

[Didge007]

I kind of want to but I wasn't really after any males yet and I was going to get an imported HM butterfly if I could get hold of one. Haven't really been a big fan of the short fin variety but these guys are pretty cute...My partner is urging me to take them back and get females but my argument is a) how do I know the rest in the tank aren't males as well (other than the obviously female looking which I didn't like) b) how do I know they will believe me they are males and won't just plop them in the same tank and c) one has torn fins so naturally it can't go ANYWHERE until they are healed Will have to sort something out for the little blue fella who is spending tonight in a bowl Had nothing else...the three surviving cherry shrimp are currently taking up the breeding net and now all the fish shops are closed until tomorrow. I might just buy another breeding net tomorrow....

 

[The_Betta_Lady]

Its very common to see this in an LFS. The staff either don't pay enough attention or don't know enough about them to spot the little males swimming about, and to be honest at times it's pretty hard to tell even if you know what you are looking for. What i don't understand is how the breeders of these fish slip up and send males. Pretty much all the females are VT so where do the PK males sneak in from, if you see where i'm coming from. Any way I hope you find a resolve to your situation (buy more tanks and keep them ) and i hope that your LFS does keep them separate if you decide to keep them back.

 

[Didge007]

So how do i tell the difference for next time?

 

[The_Betta_Lady]

The males usually have a more distinct colour, the ventral fins (the long two fins at the front are normally longer) The anal fin (the one at the bottom) is normally more angular with straight edges and they tend to show allot more aggression to the others in with them. If you see them flare try to see if they have an extra flap of skin coming out from behind their gills. Females will have a little white spot between the ventral fins but the male can sometimes have this to so not always a guarantee. I would post pics but I don't have any I can use, but I hope this helps any way

 

[lilfishie]

Take a look at the link in my signature i got 2 of my males as females too, they lived together for a year before i noticed!

 

[fuzzynicki]

I too bought 2 males in a group of what should have been 6 females from my lfs. As they grew older one of them became pushy with the other girls in the tank. This was when I discovered she was a he! I took him out and gave him his own little home. The other female that I discovered was also a PK male never did show any signs of aggression and is still in the female sorority with 35 females! Up until a few weeks ago there was also a HM male in there with them all too. Very peaceful boys and girls. It just depends on the individual bettas personality. I hope that you find a solution to your problem that suits both you and your 3 boys.

 

[Xander]

Now, when you say you got one last week, then went and got 2 more recently.. are those the only females you have?
If so, then it's not that they are male, it's that you didn't start up the sorority properly.. (sorry if you already had one established and was just adding in some, if not, this may help):

You should have a minimum of 4/5 girls, with a minimum of 10 gallons. You should add them in all at once, or at least 3 at a time, but not having much time between the 3 and any new girl(s) you add in. If purchased one and let her have the tank to herself for a week, by then she has already established the whole tank as her territory and any new female(s) added in will be attacked. So it's best to add all 4/5+ in at the same time.
You also will need to have a heavily planted tank (whether it be fake or live plants), to the point where you will have to look hard to see all the girls. You need mostly middle to top water densely covered to rid of line of sights. The lower part of the tank you would want a few caves for the ones who prefer caves, to use.

All that is a must when having multiple girls (called a sorority). It is tricky to make them all happy, and even the most established of tanks, best of best of breeders/keepers can and do have problems with them. Sometimes they are all fine for a while, then one has a bad day and you'll end up with hurt/dead girls. You just never know. They each have their own personalities, so some will be fine in groups, others won't, so you will need spare tanks to separate any if needed. Spawn siblings are usually more calm with each other, otherwise you will need to watch them carefully after putting them in their new home. They will establish dominance and territory at first, just as long as one isn't beating up the others too much.

Again, sorry if you have an established sorority and just added in a few newer ones, if not, I hope this helps in seeing that it most likely wasn't males, but the fact was that there weren't enough females in the proper settings/acclimations. Good luck.

 

[Didge007]

Oops thanks for that info, I didn't have a sorority already set up. I'm still quiet certain the little red is a male however has a tail like a ct female...it's that common in a pk male? The blue could be a vt female or a pk male. The black I am thinking is a female but I just can't tell the difference. They are all in different tanks for now until I move my 80L back into my room for them. How many girls could I put in 80L?

 

[riogal_11]

Can you post pics?
I wouldn't assume at this point that they are male. Females can be quite aggressive, especially when sorting out their hierarchy/territory. While it isn't unheard of, I find it very unlikely that lots of PK males are going to end up in a shipment of VT females.

 

[Didge007]

I wouldn't be surprised as the four I pointed out to the staff were DEFINATELY male.It's not the first time they've been sent PK males either It's not just the aggression that's making me think they are male either. I'm 90% sure this little red is a male as well as it's just too pretty I would've left it but....it was just too pretty! I will get some pics up soon anyways as I'm not good with telling the varietys apart or colour classification. I think the black/purple is a VT female as I finally was able to count the rays. She has shredded fins from being in the shop tank though so she's happily harrassing my cherrys in the kitchen tank

Just a question...do the males get the horizontal bars when they are stressed too?

 

[The_Betta_Lady]

Yes they do, they can also have a fake egg spot when young.

 

[dipsydoodlenoodle]

I've posted some guidance photos in your other thread