shell dwellers

[Nauplii]

hi im going to start up a 5-6 gallon tank, with a few frogs and a betta in it with sand and i was wondering if any one knew about the shell dwelling fish that use snail shells as homes.

i was wondering if they could be kept in the same tankas normal tropical fish or whether they needed salt water or wateva?

can anyone help me

heres a link
http/www.petfrd.com/forum/articles.php?a...rticle&artid=46

 

[Nauplii]

anyone

 

[semper fi]

snowie just wrote an article on lanprologus similis

http/fish.orbust.net/forums/index.php?sh...=0&#entry363784

 

[Ron]

Hi, I wouldn't keep the betta in there because it will probably stress the shellies, (they are best of in their own tank.) and the snail poses a great threat to their eggs, which also will stress them. I would get 3 (1 male for 2 females) in a 5-6 gallon alone. I would recomend, howver that you get a 10 gallon for them, they'll be healthier and happier. They don't need salt and do great in a temperature of 78 degrees. Don't put live plants in there, just maybe 1 fake one and a few small river rocks and about 10 snail shells. They need a sand substrate. HTH

 

[Snowie]

No the shellies would not be "stressed" by the betta. They would probably kill it.

10 gallon is minimum for any shelldweller and they are not good tankmates for your standard community tank. You can try to keep a pair maybe in a 5-6 gallon but you are doing it at your own risk.

Some people keep a few danios with them (in say a 20 gallon). Since the danios are very fast and stay next to the surface the shellies dont bother them.

 

[mrV]

Fishes from lake of tanganyika, malawi... (especially from tanganyika) need special water conditions. Those fishes are endemic and no contact to outer world - water is exceptional; pH ~9.0, conductivity ~650 uS/cm, GH ~ 9-10 °dH, KH ~17-18 °dH. More data from drak.de.

First purchase you need to buy is conductivity meter. You need to add differend kind of salts so much that you get water cond. about 650 uS/cm. Very good mineral salt is from Preis. You need to ask other compound from pharmacy. So, you also need to know data from your tap-water (from water plant).

And yes, you probable already noticed that those fishes don't fit with other fishes. And before doing anything, find tang. books written by Ad Konings.

 

[aberdeen aquarist]

Fishes from lake of tanganyika, malawi... (especially from tanganyika) need special water conditions. Those fishes are endemic and no contact to outer world - water is exceptional; pH ~9.0, conductivity ~650 uS/cm, GH ~ 9-10 °dH, KH ~17-18 °dH. More data from drak.de.

First purchase you need to buy is conductivity meter. You need to add differend kind of salts so much that you get water cond. about 650 uS/cm. Very good mineral salt is from Preis. You need to ask other compound from pharmacy. So, you also need to know data from your tap-water (from water plant).

And yes, you probable already noticed that those fishes don't fit with other fishes. And before doing anything, find tang. books written by Ad Konings.

mr v. : although you say they need pH of 9.0, my n. multifasciatus live and breed in a pH of 7.5. also, they don't need salt to thrive just make sure the water is fairly hard (put some tufa rock in the tank) and that the pH doesn't drop below pH neutral, they will be fine in these conditions.
flv : do not put frogs in with shell dwellers, they will eat them if they can catch them.

 

[gixer]

i think he meant ph 8....

 

[mrV]

i think he meant ph 8....

quotation from drak.de: "pH 9,02 / 8,90 " So, no.. I didn't mean pH 8. And that's why it is also important that your tank is "working" ok - otherwise there are lot of ammonia in water.

although you say they need pH of 9.0, my n. multifasciatus live and breed in a pH of 7.5

Sure, they can also be kept pH under seven. But I don't recommend to keep fishes in way as most of us keep them - just in normal water or slightly basic/hard made by somekind of stones/CaSO4/NaHCO3 or so.. I want keep them healthy and only recommend others to do so too. There are lots of information about that lake, so why don't we make use of these data? E.g. usually CaCO3 is added to our tap-water to increase pH so that pipes don't corrode. Unfortunately, there isn't so much Ca2+ in lake of tanganyika but there is lots of Mg2+. There isn't either free CO2 in water and if you add free CO2 in your tank, your fishes (tanganyika) may even die - because they don't tolerate free CO2.

"Calcium, Ca2+ [ppm] 11,6/12,0
Magnesium, Mg2+ [ppm] 41,6/42,3 "

So it isn't same thing, if you water is hard caused by magnesium or calsium.

And yes, fishes are kept in several kind of waters and that's why we see so many posts in "Fish emergencies" part. Some time ago fishes from malawi/tanganyika was held up hard/difficult fishes, because they died so easily. Water wasn't good for them, of course, neither food - they were fed wrong and they got dropsy and died.

I just made order for salts that I need for my tang. tank:

mixture A
- 69,3 % MgCl2 6H2O
- 20,0 % Preis mineral salt
- [8,5 % CaCl2 2H2O ( I don't need this, because there is already too much Ca2+ in our tap water)]
- 1,4 % KAl(SO4)2 12 H2O (didn't find it from store)
- 0,9 % LiCl

mixture B
- 62,7 % NaHCO3 (or baking soda)
- 23,4 % KHCO3
- 9,9% Na2CO3
- 4,0 % K2CO3

E.g. making 250g mixture A:
173g MgCl2...
50g Preis mineral salt
21g CaCl2 IF needed!
3,5g KAl(SO4)2...
2,3g LiCl

and mixture B:
- 157g NaHCO3
- 59g KHCO3
- 25g NaCO3
- 10g K2CO3

Preis mineral salt contain lots of trace elements that are missing in our tap water.

So, it's very easy. All you need is to buy those chemicals and weight them. So why don't we offer those minerals nd trace elements for fishes they need and are accustomed that water during thousends of years?

And there is even a table (Verwendung und Dosierung) how much you need to add those mixtures when your tap-water is x °dGH or y °dKH. So, it's very easy and everybody can do it too. There is no need to be chemist to make/add those mixtures.

Conductivity meter helps you to add exact amount of those salts. When it's showing about ~650uS/cm. Water is fine. Then pH should be about 8,5-9.

And if it's too much to buy those chemicals and mix them togeter, then you can even buy done mixtures. Cannot be easier!? There are some mixtures in stores too, but I don't know do they contain right compound, because some of them are for malawi/tanganyika but unfortunately ion consistency is different - probably those are some kind of "compromise salts".

 

[aberdeen aquarist]

although you say they need pH of 9.0, my n. multifasciatus live and breed in a pH of 7.5

Sure, they can also be kept pH under seven. But I don't recommend to keep fishes in way as most of us keep them - just in normal water or slightly basic/hard made by somekind of stones/CaSO4/NaHCO3 or so.. I want keep them healthy and only recommend others to do so too.

All any of us want is to keep our fish healthy, and as breeding is the best sign of health, I must be doing it right.

There are lots of information about that lake, so why don't we make use of these data? E.g. usually CaCO3 is added to our tap-water to increase pH so that pipes don't corrode.

Maybe these things are added in finland, but they aren't added in the region of the Uk I live in.

Unfortunately, there isn't so much Ca2+ in lake of tanganyika but there is lots of Mg2+. There isn't either free CO2 in water and if you add free CO2 in your tank, your fishes (tanganyika) may even die - because they don't tolerate free CO2.

"Calcium, Ca2+ [ppm] 11,6/12,0
Magnesium, Mg2+ [ppm] 41,6/42,3 "

So it isn't same thing, if you water is hard caused by magnesium or calsium.

And yes, fishes are kept in several kind of waters and that's why we see so many posts in "Fish emergencies" part. Some time ago fishes from malawi/tanganyika was held up hard/difficult fishes, because they died so easily. Water wasn't good for them, of course, neither food - they were fed wrong and they got dropsy and died.

I just made order for salts that I need for my tang. tank:

mixture A
- 69,3 % MgCl2 6H2O
- 20,0 % Preis mineral salt
- [8,5 % CaCl2 2H2O ( I don't need this, because there is already too much Ca2+ in our tap water)]
- 1,4 % KAl(SO4)2 12 H2O (didn't find it from store)
- 0,9 % LiCl

mixture B
- 62,7 % NaHCO3 (or baking soda)
- 23,4 % KHCO3
- 9,9% Na2CO3
- 4,0 % K2CO3

E.g. making 250g mixture A:
173g MgCl2...
50g Preis mineral salt
21g CaCl2 IF needed!
3,5g KAl(SO4)2...
2,3g LiCl

and mixture B:
- 157g NaHCO3
- 59g KHCO3
- 25g NaCO3
- 10g K2CO3

Preis mineral salt contain lots of trace elements that are missing in our tap water.

So, it's very easy. All you need is to buy those chemicals and weight them. So why don't we offer those minerals nd trace elements for fishes they need and are accustomed that water during thousends of years?

And there is even a table (Verwendung und Dosierung) how much you need to add those mixtures when your tap-water is x °dGH or y °dKH. So, it's very easy and everybody can do it too. There is no need to be chemist to make/add those mixtures.

Conductivity meter helps you to add exact amount of those salts. When it's showing about ~650uS/cm. Water is fine. Then pH should be about 8,5-9.

And if it's too much to buy those chemicals and mix them togeter, then you can even buy done mixtures. Cannot be easier!? There are some mixtures in stores too, but I don't know do they contain right compound, because some of them are for malawi/tanganyika but unfortunately ion consistency is different - probably those are some kind of "compromise salts".

All in all, I must say I didn't understand a lot of what you wrote, I am not any form of scientist and the thought of adding chemicals to my tanks does not appeal to me.
It sounds to me that you spend more time on getting the right chemicals in your water than watching your fish, you must be a shop keepers dream customer!!!!

 

[mrV]

All in all, I must say I didn't understand a lot of what you wrote, I am not any form of scientist and the thought of adding chemicals to my tanks does not appeal to me.

Oh no... Probably I need to take extra courses in english

It sounds to me that you spend more time on getting the right chemicals in your water than watching your fish, you must be a shop keepers dream customer!!!!

No, im not.. I shop very rarely - almost never I just ordered some chemicals because they become more inexpensive than expensive commercial salt from lfs. Those salts cost about 100 euros altogether and they are sufficient for years! So probably those sellers hate me, because I won't buy salts from them...