Sand?

[ImperfectFaerie]

First, I think it's fairly irresponsible to tell newbies that anaerobic conditions don't harm a thing, because there is a lot of evidence that states to the contrary. However, once you know the hardiness of your fish and have more knowledge of the subject then you can make an educated decision on your own for what's best with your fish. I'm not saying right or wrong, but I do think that would be potentially fatal advise to give someone who isn't yet experienced with thier own types of fish. Just a personal opinion, it's better to be safe than sorry until you have the knowledge about your own fish types/tank conditions/substrate issues/etc to make that decision for yourself.

On another note- if you don't want snails, why don't you think about some loaches? Kuhli loaches burrow in sand and stir up pockets all on thier own. They are a hoot to watch (it's best to have them in groups, they're social little guys with eachother) and they are continuously going in and out of burrowing in the substrate. Just an idea ;-}

 

[freerunner416]

When i changed over to sand from gravel i was told that i had to stir the sand once a month at least, otherwise waste that had maybe been covered could petrify in the sand. This could lead to my fish ending up very ill and water quality being very very poor!!

Is this true then??

P.S. I regret changing to sand and feel that my plants have suffered from it. They just seem to grow so much better in my other gravel tank

 

[jayjay]

First, I think it's fairly irresponsible to tell newbies that anaerobic conditions don't harm a thing, because there is a lot of evidence that states to the contrary.

Find me one PROVEN example of fish dieing from anerobic conditions. I don't see quoting science as 'irresponsible' at all.

Tokis's one just doesn't convince me.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

First, I think it's fairly irresponsible to tell newbies that anaerobic conditions don't harm a thing, because there is a lot of evidence that states to the contrary.

Find me one PROVEN example of fish dieing from anerobic conditions. I don't see quoting science as 'irresponsible' at all.

Tokis's one just doesn't convince me.

There's plenty fo proof that the gas produced by such conditions is highly toxic, you are the one who needs to find proof to justify your point- you don't even know how long the gas takes to disperse, so how can you posibly prove your point? At least i have evidence and some scientific backing to my point, while as you have none at all.

 

[OohFeeshy]

Kuhli loaches burrow in sand and stir up pockets all on thier own. They are a hoot to watch (it's best to have them in groups, they're social little guys with eachother) and they are continuously going in and out of burrowing in the substrate. Just an idea ;-}

Kuhlis very rarely burrow, they just sift through it like cories do.

 

[jayjay]

Tokis I know how 'toxic' it is etc. I just want proof that someones fish (except yours as I'm not convinced by that) has died from these 'gases'.

Provide detailed controlled evidence off something dieing from it then fine I'll back down.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Tokis I know how 'toxic' it is etc. I just want proof that someones fish (except yours as I'm not convinced by that) has died from these 'gases'.

Provide detailed controlled evidence off something dieing from it then fine I'll back down.

According to various articles on the internet, some fish are more sulfide tolerant than others.

"The sources of marine pollution are municipal and industrial waste inputs directly into the sea or via rivers, and atmospheric inputs mainly from traffic and agriculture. The increase of inorganic plant nutrients (NH3, NOx, PO4) caused eutrophication and consequent oxygen depletion in coastal bottom waters as well as in the depths of the open sea. In the anoxic sediments, hydrogen sulfide can be produced by protein-decomposing and sulfate-reducing bacteria. The bottom fauna will be destroyed and only H2S tolerant microorganisms can survive.";

http/www.springerlink.com/content/p2hmllx1gt8n6ajx/

It is also apparently stressful for fish and can bring on desease;

http/www.govdocs.aquake.org/cgi/content/...003/727/7270040

Experiments done on fish "Acute exposure to hydrogen sulfide (H2S) causes 4 dose-dependent responses: hyperpnea, unconsciousness or knockdown, apnea, and death";

http/toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/conte...stract/50/2/287

One of the reasons why dedging is so bad for aquatic life is "Sediment removal causes mechanical effects, turbidity , effects on larval development and settlement, and may produce lethal hydrogen sulfide levels."

http/md1.csa.com/partners/viewrecord.php...2&setcookie=yes


http/www.springerlink.com/content/h4127ln34m17311q/



Anyhoo, there's tons of info on the lethal or stressful effects of hydrgen sulfide on fish.

 

[jayjay]

Link 1 - We weren't talking about marine tanks where, aneroibic conditions are used in LR and DSB's to lower ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. We are talking FW tanks, no SW.

Link 2 - provides what

Link 3 - is mentions fish where?

Link 4 - that sort of thing wouldn't happen in a tank though..........

Link 5 - the fish dies where?

 

[Torrean]

wow guys chill out. Obviously if a fish is right above the spot the bubble comes from it's going to get a lethal dose of Hydrogen sulfide. The stuff just couldn't possibly be broken down that quickly. Jay jay you said yourself you assume it takes a second or two for the stuff to break down. It's not a big deal either way. If you want sand just get some snails people. It's not worth all this bickering. Even if the hydrogen sulfide degrades so quickly that it could not possibly kill a fish it still stinks like last weeks eggs... so it's worth preventing even if it's harmless.

 

[Lynden]

You said it

And I thought I argued over stupid things

-Lynden

 

[Jesseh]

You said it

And I thought I argued over stupid things

-Lynden

You said it man! That was a waste of 5 pages Although I have fought about a size of a newt for 4 days but whatever, thats the past

-Jess

 

[Lynden]

You said it

And I thought I argued over stupid things

-Lynden

You said it man! That was a waste of 5 pages Although I have fought about a size of a newt for 4 days but whatever, thats the past

-Jess

Awesome

Welcome to the forum, Jessie

-Lynden

 

[Mako Man111]

Can these 'deadly' pockets occur with gravel, especially smaller grain? Cause I have a fairly thick gravel bead, and sometimes see bubbles trapped under them by the glass..

 

[Torrean]

yes but it's a lot less likely with gravel. hmm don't really know how you can prevent it with gravel. I'd just stick my hand in and stir it up every once in a while. Better yet just use your gravel vaccum regularly. That should take care of any gas pockets and it'll aerate your substrate preventing anaerobic pockets from forming in the first place...not to mention it goes along with proper maintenance anyway.