Salt ?

[JohnBull]

Having just got over a severe case of White spot in our tank that wiped out around 40% of our community fish I recently overheard a conversation in our LFS about putting Salt into a tank as a form of prevention from disease ? If this is the case, what kind of salt would be correct to use,and how much would you use for a tank of around 50 gallons ?

 

[minnnt]

Noooooooooooo................

Don't use salt as a preventative measure... Use water changes and good filtration as a preventative instead.

 

[JohnBull]

Noooooooooooo................

Don't use salt as a preventative measure... Use water changes and good filtration as a preventative instead.

That's what I was always led to believe,but having done all the things both you and countless other people have recommended and suggested since we first started fish keeping in May with things like water changes,filtration,regular water testing ect..we still got badly infected with the white spot ?

 

[minnnt]

It could have been brought in by a new fish... that is something that you have no control over if you don't spot it (no pun intended) or if it hasn't fully developed at the time of purchase. Unless you have the option of a quarentine tank it is something that everyone risks when adding new fish, no matter how good the LFS is.

What kind of maintenance schedule do you do?

 

[JohnBull]

It could have been brought in by a new fish... that is something that you have no control over if you don't spot it (no pun intended) or if it hasn't fully developed at the time of purchase. Unless you have the option of a quarentine tank it is something that everyone risks when adding new fish, no matter how good the LFS is.

What kind of maintenance schedule do you do?

I do regular water checks with API including NO1 & NO2. Also do 2 X 15% water changes every week including changing the top fine filters. I hoover the subtrate every 2 weeks. Every 4 weeks or so I do a larger 40% water change,remove everything in the tank,clean the subtrate again,clean the glass and ornaments. I also visible check the pump,and make sure the flow is adequate and the bigger filters are not clogged up (I rotate these in order).

 

[minnnt]

All sounds good mate. Maybe a fish you bought was infected before hand then?

What about feeding?

 

[JohnBull]

All sounds good mate. Maybe a fish you bought was infected before hand then?

What about feeding?

Feed a pinch of flake every day,fish usually take 2 mins to clear it up. Sometimes add some cucumber for the Plecs and give some small fish pellett feed for Clown loach (all died btw). Every 2 weeks feed either bloodworm or water flea as a treat,but remove water in bag first.

 

[minnnt]

Must have been an infected fish then. Your maintenance sounds good mate.

 

[JohnBull]

Must have been an infected fish then. Your maintenance sounds good mate.

You are most probably correct.

The one thing I did NOT spot was noticing the first signs of the virus, which I can only put down to my inexperience. I have since learned that any kind of unusual behaviour,such as a fish staying still,not taking part in thier normal activity, or liking one particular part of the tank,all or any of these signals could be the first signs of distress ? On reflection some of our Platies started to noticibly keep in the top layers of the tank,this happened over period of several days. Without prior knowledge of White spot or fish related illness,we took this behaviour as being normal,or simply did not know what to ask about.

Looks like we learned the hard way.

 

[fishguy2727]

Agreed, do NOT add salt all the time as a preventative. This is like taking antibiotics so you never get sick. You will still get sick only now that antibiotic is useless.

It is important to point out that fish DO NOT get sick unless they are stressed. Very few pathogens can infect healthy, unstressed fish. If your fish got sick from ich then they were stressed as a separate issue and the ich just happened to be around when they were stressed and gave it the opportunity to cause infection. IME it usually requires nothing more than fixing this stressor for the ich to go away on its own. I have knowingly added fish that were sick with ich and because they were not stressed in my tank it went away on its own. I do not suggest this, but I only bring it up to prove a point.

I would do one weekly larger water change (at least 30%) not two 15%. You should be vacuuming every time you do a water change. You should not have a once monthly more extensive cleaning where you remove all the decor, your weekly water change should be thorough enough to keep the tank clean. At the most you should move the decor for a moment during the weekly water change. The only extra work on a monthly basis should be cleaning the filters.

White spot is not a virus, it is a parasite.

Yes, clamped fins, lethargy, not eating, etc. are all signs of stress. If any occur the first thing you should do is a water change. Most of the time doing more frequent water changes (even daily) is the ONLY think needed to completely fix and prevent health problems.

I personally like to have an air pump in every freshwater tank. They shouldn't be NEEDED, but they always help increase flow and aeration, and many fish like them. They can also save the entire tank if the filter ever stops for no reason.

What is the nitrate concentration?
What food are you feeding?

 

[This Old Spouse]

I do regular water checks with API including NO1 & NO2. Also do 2 X 15% water changes every week including changing the top fine filters. I hoover the subtrate every 2 weeks. Every 4 weeks or so I do a larger 40% water change,remove everything in the tank,clean the subtrate again,clean the glass and ornaments. I also visible check the pump,and make sure the flow is adequate and the bigger filters are not clogged up (I rotate these in order).

Changing the fine filters?? These shouldn't be changed unless they're literally disintegrating. Unless I'm misunderstanding, these are the floss filters that harbor your good bacteria!

If you've been changing these out you've removed the only defense against ammonia problems (which can lead to ich eventually).

 

[JohnBull]

Agreed, do NOT add salt all the time as a preventative. This is like taking antibiotics so you never get sick. You will still get sick only now that antibiotic is useless.

It is important to point out that fish DO NOT get sick unless they are stressed. Very few pathogens can infect healthy, unstressed fish. If your fish got sick from ich then they were stressed as a separate issue and the ich just happened to be around when they were stressed and gave it the opportunity to cause infection. IME it usually requires nothing more than fixing this stressor for the ich to go away on its own. I have knowingly added fish that were sick with ich and because they were not stressed in my tank it went away on its own. I do not suggest this, but I only bring it up to prove a point.

I would do one weekly larger water change (at least 30%) not two 15%. You should be vacuuming every time you do a water change. You should not have a once monthly more extensive cleaning where you remove all the decor, your weekly water change should be thorough enough to keep the tank clean. At the most you should move the decor for a moment during the weekly water change. The only extra work on a monthly basis should be cleaning the filters.

White spot is not a virus, it is a parasite.

Yes, clamped fins, lethargy, not eating, etc. are all signs of stress. If any occur the first thing you should do is a water change. Most of the time doing more frequent water changes (even daily) is the ONLY think needed to completely fix and prevent health problems.

I personally like to have an air pump in every freshwater tank. They shouldn't be NEEDED, but they always help increase flow and aeration, and many fish like them. They can also save the entire tank if the filter ever stops for no reason.

What is the nitrate concentration?
What food are you feeding?

 

[JohnBull]

I do regular water checks with API including NO1 & NO2. Also do 2 X 15% water changes every week including changing the top fine filters. I hoover the subtrate every 2 weeks. Every 4 weeks or so I do a larger 40% water change,remove everything in the tank,clean the subtrate again,clean the glass and ornaments. I also visible check the pump,and make sure the flow is adequate and the bigger filters are not clogged up (I rotate these in order).

Changing the fine filters?? These shouldn't be changed unless they're literally disintegrating. Unless I'm misunderstanding, these are the floss filters that harbor your good bacteria!

If you've been changing these out you've removed the only defense against ammonia problems (which can lead to ich eventually).

My tank is a Jewel trigon,this houses a bio filter,the Jewel pads are easy to maintain,but the fine pads at the top are where the tiny particles of dirt usually ends up. Most of my 'good' bacteria is stored in another deeper part of the bio filter,these pads dont get touched or changed until around 9 months,not touched these yet. The fine pads you refer too dont actually hold my good bacteria,and when I say 'change' more often than not I mean 'squeeze'.

All my filter maintenance is done the way Jewel suggest,and yes,we do have air filters x 2.

 

[JohnBull]

Agreed, do NOT add salt all the time as a preventative. This is like taking antibiotics so you never get sick. You will still get sick only now that antibiotic is useless.

It is important to point out that fish DO NOT get sick unless they are stressed. Very few pathogens can infect healthy, unstressed fish. If your fish got sick from ich then they were stressed as a separate issue and the ich just happened to be around when they were stressed and gave it the opportunity to cause infection. IME it usually requires nothing more than fixing this stressor for the ich to go away on its own. I have knowingly added fish that were sick with ich and because they were not stressed in my tank it went away on its own. I do not suggest this, but I only bring it up to prove a point.

I would do one weekly larger water change (at least 30%) not two 15%. You should be vacuuming every time you do a water change. You should not have a once monthly more extensive cleaning where you remove all the decor, your weekly water change should be thorough enough to keep the tank clean. At the most you should move the decor for a moment during the weekly water change. The only extra work on a monthly basis should be cleaning the filters.

White spot is not a virus, it is a parasite.

Yes, clamped fins, lethargy, not eating, etc. are all signs of stress. If any occur the first thing you should do is a water change. Most of the time doing more frequent water changes (even daily) is the ONLY think needed to completely fix and prevent health problems.

I personally like to have an air pump in every freshwater tank. They shouldn't be NEEDED, but they always help increase flow and aeration, and many fish like them. They can also save the entire tank if the filter ever stops for no reason.

What is the nitrate concentration?
What food are you feeding?

I change my water as and when to try and keep the Nitrate to its lowest possible level. The Problem I do have though is my tap water is and always has been around 30-40ppm. Todays tank reading was 60ppm,and the water was only changed yesterday. You say do a large water chance ONCE a week,others suggest differently or agree with the way its already being done??

Food fed on a daily basis is 'Aquacare Tropical 3' flake,with Omega.

 

[fishguy2727]

Tap water should not be that high in nitrate, are you sure it is that high? What kind of test kit are you using?

Larger water changes are more effective than smaller water changes that add up to the same percentage. So one 30% is more effective than two 15% water changes. IMO if you are going to go through all the effort to do a water change you might as well do them larger. Water changes should be done weekly to keep the tank's chemistry close to that of the tap. The chemistry changes over time so the longer between water changes the more different the tank's water is from the tap water, the it is more likely to stress the fish. The larger they are the higher the water quality is. I do huge water changes each week (80-90%) but I do not suggest anyone jump in to something like this. If you want to increase the amount of water you change each time increase it by 5-10% each time.

The only food I feed and recommend is New Life Spectrum exclusively. Fish will do better on this alone than any other diet IME.