Salt

[Betta_luver]

I put it in when I remember. Or if I see some finrot starting or they seem under the weather. I have had no bad affects and they all seem a bit happpier when it is in they water. Of course I dissolve it first.

 

[three-fingers]

I have several tailbiters, and salt is a natural stress reducer for bettas. It soothes aching open sores and I think, makes them more comfortable.

Depends on your definition of 'natural', if you mean as in it is found in nature, then yes - Sodium chloride is natural....but then so are most things, including the aforementioned cyanide. I don't see what being natural has to do with anything. In the bettas natural habitat Sodium chloride is not found in anywhere near as high amounts as your betta tank contains. There is nothing 'natural' about adding it to your betta tank.

If I don't add salt, my bettas just rip and rip at their tails..

Before I go on, I need to ask, what dosage of aquarium salt are you adding to the tank, and how often?

OK now, I don't believe that statement one bit . Are you willing to prove it? I'm not accusing you of lying, rather you are under an illusion .
This is what these companies are specifically trying to achieve - and they are succeeding.
They are trying to create the illusion that a common and cheap to make compound reduces stress of your aquarium fish.

Another completely natural compound is Carbon dioxide, now in a tank with no plants (or algae for that matter lol), do you think adding some more of that (but not enough to stop the fish's respiration) to the water would help at all? Why would it? Would you even notice a difference? No, but if a reputable brand said it did, and used big words on the packet as an explanation - you would believe there was. After adding the salt, you would be looking out for improvements to your tank (at least subconsciously), and if you noticed any, they must be due to the salt.

It's a little like sea-monkeys, you add the water conditioner packet to the tank on day one and unknowingly to you, it contains artemia cysts.
On day two, you add the 'instant live eggs' packet to the tank, and the instructions say to look for baby sea monkeys immediately after adding the eggs packet.
You don't go looking for them before you add the egg packet, you have no reason to.
This way they create the illusion that Artemia salina cysts can hatch instantly, and this is widely believed by millions of people to this day - doest make it true.

Can you actually explain why adding low dosages of Sodium chloride would reduce stress? Or help in any way?

Salt for me is a necessity, but for others, it may not be so. It's not a universal thing. I think it's up for preference..

Adding just Sodium chloride to a tank is not a necessity for anyone, if you were to stop adding it, you would merely subconsciously start looking for problems - problems that already existed, but your weren't on the lookout for them so never noticed.

But I know salt, warm water, and darkness, cured the Ich on my bettas when I first got them. I can't sing it's praises enough.

In significantly higher dosages than stupidly low one tablespoon per 5 gallons, Sodium chloride is great for curing ich...but bad for most fish, and at dosages high enough to cure ich it would kill a betta. It's not even remotely useful for preventing ich at low dosages, nor is it useful for anything - other than the lightening of your wallet .

 

[K.J.]

Well the whole ripping of the tail thing could be accounted for by the fact that without salt perhaps the water is different? and causes stress, which makes them bite their tail?

 

[SoCalMom]

Really no need to question someone that way

 

[three-fingers]

Well the whole ripping of the tail thing could be accounted for by the fact that without salt perhaps the water is different? and causes stress, which makes them bite their tail?

Sodium chloride alone does very little to alter most of the water chemistry, and in such small doses, any change is completely negligible . There could be explanations if a higher dose is being used, but at a higher dose it would be bad for the fish

Really no need to question someone that way

Awwww...I know lol. But the salt myth is one of my pet hates in the fishkeeping hobby, as it stems directly from a big company taking advantage of customers poor understanding of chemistry/fish biology to sell them an over priced common and cheap compound.
And the fact that none of it's defenders can even explain why it would help just frustrates me.

 

[Amunet]

I've only ever put salt in my betta tanks if they show signs of physical sickness.
Like when my Afia had somehow scratched herself on her head. I desolved a teaspoon for the 10gal tank and added it in.
From what I've read from a popular breeder on another site, salt helps keep away fungus? or parasites or something. I can't remember since I haven't been to it in a while heh

 

[Dibari]

I have several tailbiters, and salt is a natural stress reducer for bettas. It soothes aching open sores and I think, makes them more comfortable.

Depends on your definition of 'natural', if you mean as in it is found in nature, then yes - Sodium chloride is natural....but then so are most things, including the aforementioned cyanide. I don't see what being natural has to do with anything. In the bettas natural habitat Sodium chloride is not found in anywhere near as high amounts as your betta tank contains. There is nothing 'natural' about adding it to your betta tank.

If I don't add salt, my bettas just rip and rip at their tails..

Before I go on, I need to ask, what dosage of aquarium salt are you adding to the tank, and how often?

OK now, I don't believe that statement one bit . Are you willing to prove it? I'm not accusing you of lying, rather you are under an illusion .
This is what these companies are specifically trying to achieve - and they are succeeding.
They are trying to create the illusion that a common and cheap to make compound reduces stress of your aquarium fish.

Another completely natural compound is Carbon dioxide, now in a tank with no plants (or algae for that matter lol), do you think adding some more of that (but not enough to stop the fish's respiration) to the water would help at all? Why would it? Would you even notice a difference? No, but if a reputable brand said it did, and used big words on the packet as an explanation - you would believe there was. After adding the salt, you would be looking out for improvements to your tank (at least subconsciously), and if you noticed any, they must be due to the salt.

It's a little like sea-monkeys, you add the water conditioner packet to the tank on day one and unknowingly to you, it contains artemia cysts.
On day two, you add the 'instant live eggs' packet to the tank, and the instructions say to look for baby sea monkeys immediately after adding the eggs packet.
You don't go looking for them before you add the egg packet, you have no reason to.
This way they create the illusion that Artemia salina cysts can hatch instantly, and this is widely believed by millions of people to this day - doest make it true.

Can you actually explain why adding low dosages of Sodium chloride would reduce stress? Or help in any way?

Salt for me is a necessity, but for others, it may not be so. It's not a universal thing. I think it's up for preference..

Adding just Sodium chloride to a tank is not a necessity for anyone, if you were to stop adding it, you would merely subconsciously start looking for problems - problems that already existed, but your weren't on the lookout for them so never noticed.

But I know salt, warm water, and darkness, cured the Ich on my bettas when I first got them. I can't sing it's praises enough.

In significantly higher dosages than stupidly low one tablespoon per 5 gallons, Sodium chloride is great for curing ich...but bad for most fish, and at dosages high enough to cure ich it would kill a betta. It's not even remotely useful for preventing ich at low dosages, nor is it useful for anything - other than the lightening of your wallet .

Goodness gracious. No offense, but this interrogation is little ridiculous.
If you can provide me with proof that salt is BAD for my bettas instead of helpful, I'll stop using it, but untill then, I will go with what has worked for me...
As for telling me that I'm under a magical illusion that my tailbiters stop when I add salt, I really have nothing to say to that being that you don't take care of my fish, so your argument means literally null to me on that point.
I guess what I'm saying is it seems a little silly that you'd accuse me of lying (oops, being under an illusion..) about salt being good, when not only I, but many other forum members here, and at UB (my other fish home) use it with success.
And yes - Salt, warm water and darkness killed the ich on my bettas.... Without killing them. So again, you telling me that me getting rid of ich with salt would kill my fish, is a null argument because.. It didn't.

As for what does salt do.. Well.
:It assists in the healing of injuries, promotes formation of slime coating, improves gill function, reduces the uptake of nitrite, and is effective against some parasites.


But I figure I'll humor you a little. Do you have any piercings?
If not, I'll let you know a well known cleansing agent that piercers and those who get piercings, are recomended to use....


Sea salt. It cures infection, it soothes inflamed wounds, and generally calms the wound.
Don't even start to tell me it doesn't, because I've used it on my lip piercing, my nose piercing, my ear piercings (All 6 of them) and my bellybutton.
It's a 'natural' (as in occurs in nature, what else could natural mean?) cleansing, antiseptic agent for wounds, sores.. Even aches and pains (Though some use Epsom salt for arthritis, not sea salt).
My point is, sea salt has a myriad of uses, and I believe that a tonic for bettas is one of them. So sue me.
as I said, show me some proof (as in findings form an established source) that it's bad, and I'll stop using it.
Till then.. Not so much. And for all you having 1000 some posts, I really don't care if you don't 'belive what I have to say one bit'.
Sorry, but your post came off as a tad arrogant, and while I'm a newbie here, I am not completely new to fish.

 

[SoCalMom]

But I figure I'll humor you a little. Do you have any piercings?
If not, I'll let you know a well known cleansing agent that piercers and those who get piercings, are recomended to use....


Sea salt. It cures infection, it soothes inflamed wounds, and generally calms the wound.
Don't even start to tell me it doesn't, because I've used it on my lip piercing, my nose piercing, my ear piercings (All 6 of them) and my bellybutton.
It's a 'natural' (as in occurs in nature, what else could natural mean?) cleansing, antiseptic agent for wounds, sores.. Even aches and pains (Though some use Epsom salt for arthritis, not sea salt).
My point is, sea salt has a myriad of uses, and I believe that a tonic for bettas is one of them. So sue me.
as I said, show me some proof (as in findings form an established source) that it's bad, and I'll stop using it.
Till then.. Not so much.

I can attest to that!

Although I just used regular old saline solution with my nostril piercing. I did use the sea salt spray for my belly button and 8 ear piercings

 

[andywg]

As for telling me that I'm under a magical illusion that my tailbiters stop when I add salt, I really have nothing to say to that being that you don't take care of my fish, so your argument means literally null to me on that point.

Or it could be that there is another factor that is causing the problems. Salt is known to lessen the effects of nitrite poisoning (hence its historic use when filtration and water change routines were a long way from where we are now). I am unaware of salt having any behavioural effects, so if anything, the salt is most likely masking the problem instead of curing it.

I guess what I'm saying is it seems a little silly that you'd accuse me of lying (oops, being under an illusion..) about salt being good, when not only I, but many other forum members here, and at UB (my other fish home) use it with success.
And yes - Salt, warm water and darkness killed the ich on my bettas.... Without killing them. So again, you telling me that me getting rid of ich with salt would kill my fish, is a null argument because.. It didn't.

Darkness does nothing with regards to ich, they are a parasite that lives off the fish caring little for whether it is light or not. Salt is useful as a treatment when something is wrong, but its use as a tonic is not necessary in this day and age.

But I figure I'll humor you a little. Do you have any piercings?
If not, I'll let you know a well known cleansing agent that piercers and those who get piercings, are recomended to use....

Sea salt. It cures infection, it soothes inflamed wounds, and generally calms the wound.
Don't even start to tell me it doesn't, because I've used it on my lip piercing, my nose piercing, my ear piercings (All 6 of them) and my bellybutton.
It's a 'natural' (as in occurs in nature, what else could natural mean?) cleansing, antiseptic agent for wounds, sores.. Even aches and pains (Though some use Epsom salt for arthritis, not sea salt).
My point is, sea salt has a myriad of uses, and I believe that a tonic for bettas is one of them. So sue me.
as I said, show me some proof (as in findings form an established source) that it's bad, and I'll stop using it.
Till then.. Not so much.

However, salt in water being used to treat a wound to the skin is a bit different from this situation. By putting the salt in the water, it would be like me making you drink salt water constantly, so your comparrison is a little off the mark. That leads to problems with your osmoregulation. The same can happen to fishes. Many fish have evolved over millions of years to live in freshwater, though some still retain the ability to process salt water due to their evolutionary history.

When looking into the effects of salt on freshwater fish, I located a research paper that found inbreeding to reduce the ability for guppies (which can survive 150-200% strength sea water in excess of 30 days). With some strains of betta, this would have me somewhat concerned.

The bottom line is, this fish naturally occurs in freshwater, why deliberately place them in water different from that they naturally reside in?

 

[Dibari]

Or it could be that there is another factor that is causing the problems. Salt is known to lessen the effects of nitrite poisoning (hence its historic use when filtration and water change routines were a long way from where we are now). I am unaware of salt having any behavioural effects, so if anything, the salt is most likely masking the problem instead of curing it.

No, I don't think it has anything to do with behaviour so much as it has to do with their tails not hurting. Their tails didn't have a chance to recover before I added aquarium salt, and I think it soothes their pain. I dunno, I just know they don't bite anymore.

Darkness does nothing with regards to ich, they are a parasite that lives off the fish caring little for whether it is light or not. Salt is useful as a treatment when something is wrong, but its use as a tonic is not necessary in this day and age.
Yeah, I didn't know at the time that darkness was only usable for velvet, but my point is, they were cured.


However, salt in water being used to treat a wound to the skin is a bit different from this situation. By putting the salt in the water, it would be like me making you drink salt water constantly, so your comparrison is a little off the mark. That leads to problems with your osmoregulation. The same can happen to fishes. Many fish have evolved over millions of years to live in freshwater, though some still retain the ability to process salt water due to their evolutionary history.

When looking into the effects of salt on freshwater fish, I located a research paper that found inbreeding to reduce the ability for guppies (which can survive 150-200% strength sea water in excess of 30 days). With some strains of betta, this would have me somewhat concerned.

The bottom line is, this fish naturally occurs in freshwater, why deliberately place them in water different from that they naturally reside in?

I dunno, why do we add anything that isn't naturally occuring in their environment to their water? To help them? I think it's something like that. Stress coat doesn't exist in their natural environment, but we add it to their aquarium to assist them. I don't see why this is any different.

I figured I'd have opposers on this. I'd love to see this research paper (though I'd really rather see an article from an established source that found that aquarium salt is bad always all the time).
All in all, I guess it comes down to user preference.. But all in all, I'm not going to change what has been working for me with no ill effects (that's right, my bettas are healthy and untill they die from some salt related illness, or suffer from it somehow) untill I see some solid, unbiased proof on the subject.
That's my bottom line. Sorry guys.

 

[three-fingers]

From what I've read from a popular breeder on another site, salt helps keep away fungus? or parasites or something. I can't remember since I haven't been to it in a while heh

Salt does, but certainly not in those tiny concentrations. For the concentrations to be high enough to have any affect on freshwater parasites/fungus, it would be bad for the fish - but over the short term, better than being covered in parasites. Salt has it's uses, in high concentrations for treating fish, and in these low concentrations for making API and others money.

Goodness gracious. No offense, but this interrogation is little ridiculous.

Sorry if you think so, I wouldn't have called it an interrogation though .

If you can provide me with proof that salt is BAD for my bettas instead of helpful, I'll stop using it, but untill then, I will go with what has worked for me...

Fair enough, there is plenty of proof out there, most of it out of my reach. I don't have the money to pay for these papers, but I will have a look when I have time for extracts or any free papers. However I'm not even necessarily saying adding these TINY doses of salt is harming your fish at all. What I'm saying is that it's not making any difference in the slightest. Although over the long term, I do believe low doses of Sodium chloride can negatively affect fish, it obviously doesn't do so noticeably. If it did API wouldn't be making all this money from it.

As for telling me that I'm under a magical illusion that my tailbiters stop when I add salt, I really have nothing to say to that being that you don't take care of my fish, so your argument means literally null to me on that point.

Nothing magical about it, thousands of companies have millions of people under the illusion that they need their product (whatever it is), or even that its remotely useful. It's a very common thing, don't worry or anything.

I guess what I'm saying is it seems a little silly that you'd accuse me of lying (oops, being under an illusion..) about salt being good, when not only I, but many other forum members here, and at UB (my other fish home) use it with success.

Many people keep goldfish in 1/2 gallon bowls with 'success' too...the number of people doing it is not an argument unless they can prove it helps, which nobody here even seems to have tried to do.

And yes - Salt, warm water and darkness killed the ich on my bettas.... Without killing them. So again, you telling me that me getting rid of ich with salt would kill my fish, is a null argument because.. It didn't.

Thats not what I'm saying, what I'm saying is the salt didn't help, other factors did.

As for what does salt do.. Well.
:It assists in the healing of injuries, promotes formation of slime coating, improves gill function, reduces the uptake of nitrite, and is effective against some parasites.

Salt can do some of those things, but not at all in low concentrations. In high concentrations, you would have problems.

 

[three-fingers]

But I figure I'll humor you a little. Do you have any piercings?
If not, I'll let you know a well known cleansing agent that piercers and those who get piercings, are recomended to use....

No piercings, but I knew that .
Not really any relevance here, because if you kept a betta in that 'cleansing agent', it would die.
And if you reduced the salinity enough for bettas to happily live in, the 'cleansing agent' would not be remotely effective.

Sea salt. It cures infection, it soothes inflamed wounds, and generally calms the wound.
Don't even start to tell me it doesn't, because I've used it on my lip piercing, my nose piercing, my ear piercings (All 6 of them) and my bellybutton.
It's a 'natural' (as in occurs in nature, what else could natural mean?) cleansing, antiseptic agent for wounds, sores.. Even aches and pains (Though some use Epsom salt for arthritis, not sea salt).

Sea salt is slightly different, but it doesn't matter, we are talking about completely different uses here, once again the concentrations would have to be high to help - and bettas cant live in high salt concentrations.

as I said, show me some proof (as in findings form an established source) that it's bad, and I'll stop using it.

OK, I'll try, but dont see why you would need it. Common sense should be enough, but hey I'll 'humor you' .

Till then.. Not so much. And for all you having 1000 some posts, I really don't care if you don't 'belive what I have to say one bit'.
Sorry, but your post came off as a tad arrogant, and while I'm a newbie here, I am not completely new to fish.

Nothing to do with that, post count means absolutely nothing. I could have thousands of completely rubbish posts.
I'm sorry though, I guess I could come across being arrogant....I'm just frustrated .

I dunno, I just know they don't bite anymore.

Exactly, but why not let a simple compound take the credit? Doesn't matter if there's no science behind it - the box said it should help!

Yeah, I didn't know at the time that darkness was only usable for velvet, but my point is, they were cured.

Your point was kinda that the salt/darkness cured, or at least in part cured it . Not simply that you had cured fish, that wouldn't be much of a point .

I dunno, why do we add anything that isn't naturally occuring in their environment to their water? To help them? I think it's something like that. Stress coat doesn't exist in their natural environment, but we add it to their aquarium to assist them. I don't see why this is any different.

Stress coat is another argument entirely, we mainly add it to get rid of other compounds from the water that are worse. It's other uses are debatable.

I figured I'd have opposers on this. I'd love to see this research paper (though I'd really rather see an article from an established source that found that aquarium salt is bad always all the time).

Nobody is saying 'aquarium salt is always bad all the time'. Just that it is no good. Although If you really want to see this paper, I'll try. I don't have access to most of this stuff though, at least without paying.

All in all, I guess it comes down to user preference.. But all in all, I'm not going to change what has been working for me with no ill effects (that's right, my bettas are healthy and untill they die from some salt related illness, or suffer from it somehow) untill I see some solid, unbiased proof on the subject.
That's my bottom line. Sorry guys.

Thats fair enough, except I still don't understand you can say it's worked for you when you yourself have no proof .

In the end, I'm not actually trying to attack anybody, even if its coming out that way.
I'm really sorry if it is, I'm just a little frustrated.
I'm trying to save you from being ripped off, but if people want to believe in the information provided by a big company trying to sell a product, over chemistry/biology, that's OK . Just seems strange to me.

 

[dwarfgourami]

If I was unable to keep a certain species of fish without severe stress symptoms except when adding a tonic, then my main interest would be in finding out what it is that is causing the stress. This suggests that there is a problem either with the strain of betta or with the conditions under which it is kept.

If it were mollies, which come from naturally hard water, then I would accept that stress could well be caused by the water not having enough salts in it, but bettas are supposed to be able to deal with soft waters perfectly well, so that can hardly be the case. And naturally, if there is something else causing stress you would want to remove that factor, rather than masking it with a tonic.

As for the person mentioning stress coat, the only reason I've ever used stress coat is as a dechlorinator.

 

[Dibari]

Three fingers: I appreciate you trying to 'help' me, I suppose, but I still stand firm where I am. I have no reason to believe it hasn't assisted my fish in any way, so I will continue to use it. I apologize if I seemed to be getting frustrated, but I suppose I didn't expect to be jumped on from all sides about using salt in my tank, when it has been encouraged by many members (who I trust) before.
Sorry I can't help you with your own brand of frustration. I see no reason to change my ways, when it has 'seemed' to help me before.

 

[andywg]

Well, if anyone is interested in a debate about the science behind adding salt to the aquarium (and why it is just a waste of money when used as a tonic) then check out this recently restored thread:

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showto...t&p=1628604