just a follow up, as I haven't mentioned them in a while... I started with 6 or so, of them, and by the time everything shook out, I now have 4 thriving in my South American Tetra tank... the biggest one is now close to 4 inches long... a little longer than the mature palmeri's, but not quite as heavy... I suspect none are mature yet, but they seem to be taking to the environment I set up for them...