Safety Of Using Bleach

[fry_lover]

Hi

I am sorry of this is the wrong forum, but sometimes in "tropical chat" topics just disappear and go into oblivion!

BLEACH

Wanted to confirm something i am pretty sure i already know.

Every now and then i might soak some ocean rock in a 2% bleach solution in the bath over night to clean it up. I then rinse like mad and then soak it in x5 strength Seachem Prime to neutalise the chlorine, then rinse again and it goes into my tank with fish.

Never had a problem with this. I believe scientifically speaking, if the chlorine has been neutralised, household bleach used in such a mannor that i have just described presents no significant risk to fish? The fish in question are Freshwater.

I mean household bleach is basically high stength chlorine right?

Anyone got any scientific info or links that show this to be the case (thats it's safe to aquatic life if the chlorine is neutralised)

 

[Colin_T]

objects soaked in bleach/ chlorine are normally fine if cleaned well afterwards. The main drawback to household bleach is that many brands contain surfactants (soap or detergent) that help the bleach to stick to things and break down oily residue. Then the bleach can do its job better.

As long as the detergents get washed off there shouldn't be any real problems. Limestone and sandstone rock is very porous and the surfactants might soak into the rock and leach out slowly once it is put back into the tank.

Household bleach is pretty low strength chlorine. It usually only contains about 4% chlorine.

If you want to clean the rocks try squirting them with a garden hose. You can also scrub them with a clean scrubbing brush and leave them out in the sun for a few hours. If you do want to bleach them, only use a bleach without detergents added, or use swimming pool chlorine. And then use your dechlorinator like you have been.

 

[Bignose]

Bleach is a solution of water and sodium hypochlorite NaOCl. It is an ionic compound, so the Na+ and the OCl- disassociates in solution. Hypochlorites are pretty unstable, which is why they work so well as a bleaching/oxidizing agent.

Colin is right in that the concentration of the bleach is usually low in relative terms, commercial bleaches are 3 to 6% sodium hypochlorite, but that is still a lot of chlorine compared with the treatment in the tap water. A typical water treatment concentration of chloramine is 3 ppm (the US EPA limits it to 4 ppm maximum). Compared with bleach, 4% is 4 pph, that's parts per hundred. In ppm, that would be 40 000 ppm. Many, many times the level of tap water.

But, washing it out and treating with dechlorinator will get rid of any chlorine contamination. The process is exactly the same. Most of the chlorine won't remain as OCl- because it is so reactive, so them you are left with Cl-, which is what the dechlorinator treats.

All that said, I do think that bleaching and boiling and whatnot of rocks and woods found in nature is normally massive overkill. Wherever you found these objects, in order for it to contain a fish parasite, it would have to have been exposed to fish. Fish parasites must have exposure to fish or else they die. Also, aquatic parasites must not dry out or else they die. I think what Colin said in the last paragraph there is fine -- clean them with a brush, then let them sit out to dry. The worst the thing could have is some bacteria on it -- but guess what, EVERYTHING has bacteria on it. Chances are exceptionally slim that the bacteria would be fish-deadly, and chances are good that whatever bacteria that are on it would just become part of the the biofilm in the tank and just add to the bacterial diversity that already exists in a healthy tank. Now, don't be intentionally dense about what you put in the tank -- objects from the stream behind the hog rendering plant are probably best avoided -- but you don't need to go crazy cleaning things, either. The fish in nature live just fine when a rock or tree branch ends up in their body of water.

 

[Colin_T]

--- but guess what, EVERYTHING has bacteria on it.

NO NO AHHHHHHHHHHHH bugs on me, gotta wash my hands, quick quick quick OCD catching me, AHHHH bugs.
Gross not going outside every again. Where's my bubble to hide in?

 

[fry_lover]

i've only ever used bleach to clean the ocean rock, i couldnt care less if there is bacteria on it or not!

the question was one of safety for fish, not whether the bleach is required as a treatment of choice or not.

EDIT: what i mean is that i didnt want it to become a "dont need bleach" debate, i wanted to expand my knowledge on bleach and use of. I am not having a hissy-fit, just want to make sure i am putting my point across

thanks for replies though

EDIT: i mean "clean" the ocean rock of its colour, not of "germs"

i have no desire to use bleach as a disinfectant, perhaps that should have been made clearer.

in fact i dont have much desire to use bleach full stop, i can take it or leave it with the ocean rock, its just quick and low effort, just wanted to know a bit of science about the safety of using household bleach with regards anything to do with aquaria.

what we "should" and should not use, was not the intention of the thread (which is why i posted in the science forum)

 

[Tolak]

I posted a topic on the use of bleach some time ago; http/www.fishforums.net/content/forum/119809/Bleach-/

It is one of my many fishroom consumables.

 

[fry_lover]

thanks Tolak, i just wanted get my facts straight, as i was reading on another forum some posts that had undertones of "bleach will kill everything and wipe out half your street if you use it on your tank" ha ha, i jest and exaggerate, but it was a thread about cleaning ocean rock

I am not saying it should be the treatment of choice, but lets get our story straight if we are going to advise against bleach (i do not advise against bleach if done appropriately)

I also recall now courtesy of your thread, the link between sun-light and bleach

 

[Bignose]

I posted a topic on the use of bleach some time ago; <a href="http/www.fishforums.net/content/forum/119809/Bleach-/" target="_blank">http/www.fishforums.net/content/forum/119809/Bleach-/</a>

It is one of my many fishroom consumables.

I must have missed that other thread, because your post #23 has a small technical error. "Bleach is chlorine, the same as in chlorinated tap water." isn't quite true. Because chlorinated water either has chlorine gas dissolved in it, Cl2, or chloramine which is NH2Cl. Bleach is NaOCl which as I said above disassociates into Na+ and OCl-. The Oxygen and the Chlorine are bonded together to make the hypochlorite ion, OCl-. So the bleach chlorine and the tap water chlorine aren't the same.

But, like I said, the oxygen on the hypochlorite ion is pretty reactive, so, there is always a mix of OCl- and just plain Cl- in the solution, and the dechlorinator can neutralize them both. In regards to the OP, yes, those other posts are over exaggeration. The bleach is reactive with organic material, so it can be deadly to filter bacteria, fish, and even people. But, dechlorinator takes care of it, as does dilution. So long as you aren't intentionally being dangerous with it, it can be used safely used near and for aquariums.

 

[Tolak]

Awww geez, here you go getting all molecular on me! I posted that topic a couple of years back, as there was a ton of posting at the time that went along the lines of "Never use bleech, one drop in a thousand gallons will kill all your fishees, and you will never be able to use that tank again!" Many other aquarists besides myself had been using bleach safely for many years when I posted that topic, and there was so much misinformation and assumptions being posted about the use of bleach that I felt the record needed to be set straight.

I think that for all practical purposes, the average home aquarist can treat a water/bleach solution the same as tap water with a really strong dose of chlorine. I'm sure on a larger scale, probably that of a public aquarium, that the differences may come into play.

 

[Bignose]

I think that for all practical purposes, the average home aquarist can treat a water/bleach solution the same as tap water with a really strong dose of chlorine. I'm sure on a larger scale, probably that of a public aquarium, that the differences may come into play.

Yes, yes, I agree. But, you know me, being technically correct is the best kind of correct

 

[The-Wolf]

coincidense that this thread appears now as I have a resin rock ornament
sitting in a bleach solution to kill some nasty black algae.
what I do after the bleach soak is place the item outside to be dried by air and
when I can no longer smell any bleach on it (around 24-36 hrs), it goes back in the tank.

what I gather from this thread is, I can just use a decent dechlorinater and bypass the air drying process.
is this correct?

 

[Bignose]

coincidense that this thread appears now as I have a resin rock ornament
sitting in a bleach solution to kill some nasty black algae.
what I do after the bleach soak is place the item outside to be dried by air and
when I can no longer smell any bleach on it (around 24-36 hrs), it goes back in the tank.

what I gather from this thread is, I can just use a decent dechlorinater and bypass the air drying process.
is this correct?

I'm assuming that maybe you missed a step, but rinse it off really well after the bleach soak, then use a good dose of declorinator to eliminate all final traces of chlorine, and yes, it should be good to go.

 

[The-Wolf]

yes sorry, I missed the rinse part.
bleach soak, rinse then air dry
so I can now do
bleach, rinse, dechlorinate

 

[rdd1952]

I was trying to do some research on Purigen recently and bleach is what is used to recharge it. Their instructions say to soak it in a 1:1 solution of bleach for 24 hours and then, after rinsing well, soaking for 8 hours in a solution of 2 tablespoons of dechlorinator per cup of water to kill the chlorine.

 

[fry_lover]

I was trying to do some research on Purigen recently and bleach is what is used to recharge it. Their instructions say to soak it in a 1:1 solution of bleach for 24 hours and then, after rinsing well, soaking for 8 hours in a solution of 2 tablespoons of dechlorinator per cup of water to kill the chlorine.

I've been exchanging some posts on another forum, there is a heck of a lot of people using this Purigen and recharging with bleach, no problems have been reported.

Seachem are addament (spelling?) that the procedure of using bleach and then dechlorinating with Prime is fish safe. Other dechlor's can be used too, but apparently some can effect how many times you can recharge the Purigen