ATK!!!
Fishaholic
not good... my fish seem to be ok at the moment but im not sure what to do, ive got a lot of plants in my aquarium (35l biube) and i noticed that many pH lowerers say not to use with plants... why? 
Rising Ph D:
- Thread starter ATK!!!
- Start date
markandhisfish
comfortably numb
how high is your ph? messing with ph isnt really advisable , epsecially with these ph up and ph down products. they will give you huge swings in ph. what rocks/substrate etc have you got in there? as some rocks and siubstrates will raise ph .
OP
OP
ATK!!!
Fishaholic
at the moment it is 8.2, im using a liquid tester so its pretty accurate, my substrate is ceramic as it is used as biological media for the aquarium so i cant really take it out, will using plants lower or raise the pH?
markandhisfish
comfortably numb
plants wont do anything to your ph , but bogwood can lower it slightly , if your tank is planted , maybe you could try co2 injection? dont quote me on this but i think co2 will lower ph. but i would ask somebody in the planted section .
OP
OP
ATK!!!
Fishaholic
ok thanks for the help, the pH have stopped rising at least 
Aqua Tom
Fish Gatherer
It may be that you have co2 in your tapwater like I do.
When it is fresh out of the tap my ph is 7.5. Left alone it raises to 8.2 over the next day or so by itself.
The reason is that the water company adds co2 to the water to artificialy lower the ph. Once this has "gassed off" the water resorts to its natural state of 8.2, this takes a day or so & was confusing at first.
If it doesnt rise anymore than 8.2 then leave it alone. 8.2 is not that bad.
When it is fresh out of the tap my ph is 7.5. Left alone it raises to 8.2 over the next day or so by itself.
The reason is that the water company adds co2 to the water to artificialy lower the ph. Once this has "gassed off" the water resorts to its natural state of 8.2, this takes a day or so & was confusing at first.
If it doesnt rise anymore than 8.2 then leave it alone. 8.2 is not that bad.
waterdrop
Enthusiastic "Re-Beginner"
I agree that CO2 gas-off is a very common reason for seeing pH rise in the 24 to 48 hour period after water is drawn from the tap.
I may be missing some information but I've never thought the water authority actually added any CO2 to tap water but that a higher concentration of CO2 was simply -able- to be retained in water that is under higher pressure, such as while it is in the urban pipe system where large water tower is holding a massive weight of water volume that bears down on the water in the pipes. As soon as you draw it out of those pipes and allow it to return to atmospheric pressure, it re-balances to the lower amount of CO2 that can be held at the lower pressure.
An off-topic thing of interest to throw in while we're all thinking about CO2 is that CO2 is much, much less abundant in water than it is in air. One of the reasons that vascular land plants had a hard, slow time of it evolving back down in to the water was that CO2 was so much less available. Plants that can put leaves on the water surface or that actually project leaves above the surface have access to vastly greater amounts of CO2 and can use it to advantage. CO2 is by far the preferred molecule of most plants for "making" their daily simple sugars with which to move energy around among their tissues. Hydrogen and Oxygen are used by plants a lot but are readily available from water itself, but Carbon, which is also greatly needed, is often a major limiting factor for plants.
~~waterdrop~~
I may be missing some information but I've never thought the water authority actually added any CO2 to tap water but that a higher concentration of CO2 was simply -able- to be retained in water that is under higher pressure, such as while it is in the urban pipe system where large water tower is holding a massive weight of water volume that bears down on the water in the pipes. As soon as you draw it out of those pipes and allow it to return to atmospheric pressure, it re-balances to the lower amount of CO2 that can be held at the lower pressure.
An off-topic thing of interest to throw in while we're all thinking about CO2 is that CO2 is much, much less abundant in water than it is in air. One of the reasons that vascular land plants had a hard, slow time of it evolving back down in to the water was that CO2 was so much less available. Plants that can put leaves on the water surface or that actually project leaves above the surface have access to vastly greater amounts of CO2 and can use it to advantage. CO2 is by far the preferred molecule of most plants for "making" their daily simple sugars with which to move energy around among their tissues. Hydrogen and Oxygen are used by plants a lot but are readily available from water itself, but Carbon, which is also greatly needed, is often a major limiting factor for plants.
~~waterdrop~~
OP
OP
ATK!!!
Fishaholic
wow thanks that explains it, i suppose shrimp like high pH anyway 
Aqua Tom
Fish Gatherer
Sorry wd, when i said the water company added co2 I think i was getting confused with chorine. But I am glad to see you agreed with the principle.
OP
OP
ATK!!!
Fishaholic
oh ok, ah well, the pH hasent risen for now anyway so problem seems to be solved, would it be wise to keep my cardinal tetra in there though
they seem to be doing fine at the mo btw
they seem to be doing fine at the mo btw
Aqua Tom
Fish Gatherer
oh ok, ah well, the pH hasent risen for now anyway so problem seems to be solved, would it be wise to keep my cardinal tetra in there though
they seem to be doing fine at the mo btw
I have a school of 20 cardinal tetra living in ph 8.2. They seem to be happy at the moment but I only had them for a week or so.
OP
OP
ATK!!!
Fishaholic
yea ive only had mine for a week but ive only got 8
OP
OP
ATK!!!
Fishaholic
got more shrimp today and theyre really happy with water, at least i think they are anyway 
waterdrop
Enthusiastic "Re-Beginner"
I like the shrimp in your picture there!
The broad range of tropicals such as cardinals that have proved themselves over many decades to be quite capable of living in the various tap pH levels we see in most places will usually do fine if we just practice good tank keeping.
If you think about it, a fish that might prefer a more soft, acid water will be a bit off of it's ideal range with harder water that has a more calcium and magnesium and few other trace minerals in higher amounts in it. But when you allow the weeks to go by and keep allowing excuses to happen for weekly water changes not getting done, then (especially if you "top up" the tank level) you will be adding still more trace minerals without any of them having come out. This will raise the hardness a bit, pushing things for that fish a bit more.
So good water changes on a regular basis, that keep the tank water much closer to what the native tap water levels are is an even better thing for fish that are a little out of their optimal pH range than fish that are in their ideal range.
~~waterdrop~~
The broad range of tropicals such as cardinals that have proved themselves over many decades to be quite capable of living in the various tap pH levels we see in most places will usually do fine if we just practice good tank keeping.
If you think about it, a fish that might prefer a more soft, acid water will be a bit off of it's ideal range with harder water that has a more calcium and magnesium and few other trace minerals in higher amounts in it. But when you allow the weeks to go by and keep allowing excuses to happen for weekly water changes not getting done, then (especially if you "top up" the tank level) you will be adding still more trace minerals without any of them having come out. This will raise the hardness a bit, pushing things for that fish a bit more.
So good water changes on a regular basis, that keep the tank water much closer to what the native tap water levels are is an even better thing for fish that are a little out of their optimal pH range than fish that are in their ideal range.
~~waterdrop~~
OP
OP
ATK!!!
Fishaholic
wow, you couldnt have put that in a better way! i'm a little more confident now and the tetras are still holding out, i'll keep on doing regular water changes from now on
thnaks guys
thnaks guys
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