Rio Amaya Pencilfish Females Strange Markings

RickyV

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Hello, 3 weeks ago I received a shipment of rio amaya pencilfish. I have noticed a few of the females have these markings. I cannot tell if they are natural markings, scratches or disease. Unfortunately I don't remember if they were present from day 1. Some of the males also have some small pale marks. Otherwise all the fish look well and are acting normal. Anyone see something similar woth other pencilfish species?
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First of all, I am not convinced they are females of N. sp. 'Rio Amaya.' I've yet to see a definitive report about what the females of all the 'new' super-red Nannostomus species/variants look like. Conspiracy theories abound that exporters are shipping females of N. rubrocaudatus or N. marginatus instead to corner the market, or whether the species/variant is color dimorphic at all and exporters can't distinguish the sexes. Their closest relative, N. rubrocaudatus, is dramatically dimorphic in that regard while their other closest relative, N. mortenthaleri, is only slightly so and most folks don't realize it or recognize it.

All that said, in my decades-long experience with Nannostomus-keeping, I've not seen this abnormal patterning to this degree before on any Nannostomus species. I've seen a much milder version that reflected injury but to this degree...I'm at a loss. It's difficult to assess in the photo but the red coloring on the male appears pale---but again, that could be the photo.
 
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First of all, I am not convinced they are females of N. sp. 'Rio Amaya.' I've yet to see a definitive report about what the females of all the 'new' super-red Nannostomus species/variants look like. Conspiracy theories abound that exporters are shipping females of N. rubrocaudatus or N. marginatus instead to corner the market, or whether the species/variant is color dimorphic at all and exporters can't distinguish the sexes. Their closest relative, N. rubrocaudatus, is dramatically dimorphic in that regard while their other closest relative, N. mortenthaleri, is only slightly so and most folks don't realize it or recognize it.

All that said, in my decades-long experience with Nannostomus-keeping, I've not seen this abnormal patterning to this degree before on any Nannostomus species. I've seen a much milder version that reflected injury but to this degree...I'm at a loss. It's difficult to assess in the photo but the red coloring on the male appears pale---but again, that could be the photo.
Oliver Lucanos and Chris Lukhaup both have said that they are not sexually dimorphic, but Hans Harreveld on YouTube has told me they are and has bred them. The juveniles all start out looking like the females and slowly color up to the full red
Juveniles:
But I dont know if its possible they're just being cross bred, the adults look like true amayas, but my knowledge on genetics/cross-breeding is limited.

Yeah for the most part the fish are all doing very well I've had a few losses, only from females... I'm hoping the losses were just weak fish dying off because I haven't seen any other issues in the current fish. Just this one female that looks sick that I've isolated for treatment

Here is a video of the female with the marking and the other fish in the tank. Some of the males are paler, and some have very vibrant red. I have been feeding the fish mostly baby brine shrimp, but also grindal worms, moina, and occasional springtails/fruit flies.
 
Oliver Lucanos and Chris Lukhaup both have said that they are not sexually dimorphic, but Hans Harreveld on YouTube has told me they are and has bred them. The juveniles all start out looking like the females and slowly color up to the full red
But I dont know if its possible they're just being cross bred, the adults look like true amayas, but my knowledge on genetics/cross-breeding is limited.
Yes, the fact that they spawn is not determinative, especially if it turns out they are a color variant of N. rubrocaudatus.

Here's Glaser on the state of affairs and the possible shenanigans going on:


" ...all (80) fish were extremely red, only in some of them the head and the front fifth of the body was yellowish-whitish. We do not yet know if this is a sex difference or a variance in the coloration of the males. Elsewhere, females were included in shipments that were not outwardly different from Nannostomus rubrocaudatus females. We cannot decide if these are true females of Nannostomus sp. “Super Red” or if the exporters simply met the request for females from their customers in Europe, Asia and America by supplying females of N. rubrocaudatus....As said, we do not know.”
 

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