Reverse Osmosis Water Questions

[jag51186]

Hello all, I just have some questions for those of you that use RODI water in your freshwater tanks (Not going to the saltwater dark side yet). Due to my ongoing water dilemmas, I am most likely going to purchase an RODI unit and start to utilize that for my freshwater planted tanks. I don't feel like typing out all the problems I have with my well water, but it is over in my journal, if you are interested.
 
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/437428-so-it-begins/  (Hope that works)
 
Anyway, I am going to be hooking up my RODI unit to my first floor shower head (most likely) and keeping a 55 gallon drum as a reservoir for it. This way, the water will be at least to room temperature, and I will probably heat it to match as well, and the shower water is softened, so the RO unit will work less hard and I shouldn't have to replace things in it as frequently. Plus, the waste water can drain right down the shower drain. So, on to my questions...
 
1. Would your average shower spicket provide enough pressure to get the unit working appropriately?
 
2. Anyone have good recommendations for pumps that could pump the water from the reservoir through a hose of about 15-20 feet into my tank so I don't have to carry buckets?
 
3. Any specific recommendations on products for adding GH and KH back into the water?
 
4. And finally, for those of you that use RO water in multiple tanks, when do you add the nutrients back in?? I would assume they need to be added before you place the water into the tank for the water change so the fish aren't exposed to the changing water chemistry. But, if this is the case, then I would be treating the entire 55 gallon drum, and if I end up getting more tanks in the future that may potentially need different parameters...what then?? Would I just have to have multiple reservoirs, each assigned to a tank??
 
I'm sure more questions will circle through my brain before all is said and done, but that's it for now.
 
Another step on the road to successful tank-keeping 

 
 
 
 

 

[DrRob]

The more pressure the better, more pressure leads to less wastage per drum of RO. I run mine at one of the first pipes on the way into the house.
 
Personally (and I do have a water softener) I don't see the point in running after a softener. I'm assuming you're talking about a salt based system, in which case you're spending money on salt to exchange it for calcium, and then removing the salt. Why not just run it before the softener and take a process out of the system (unless of course you don't have space to do it there).
 
I tend to remineralise the water in batches, usually in 25 litre jerrycans, you'll have to work out what works for you sadly.
 
As for salts, you can get proprietary stuff. Seachem do equilibrium, which I've found is a pain to dissolve. Kent do a variety of salts which I've found are easier to work with. Personally I have a selection of what my other half calls random powders, which is a mix of calcium chloride, calcium sulphate, magnesium sulphate heptahydrate (epsom salts), potassium carbonate. You can tweak the mixes to suit whatever you like, but it does depend a little on what GH and kH you want.

 

[jag51186]

So, I was going to run it at the point where the pipe enters the house, but it's in the basement. So, that means the water would be harder to heat/keep heated, and I would have to run the hose even farther to get to the tanks. I could do this, if you think there is a pump strong enough to get the water up the stairs and to the tanks...because I was really hoping to avoid hauling buckets still. Also, there is the dilemma of finding a drain for the waste water. I could probably make this work because it was my first idea, but I figured the shower would be easier to keep the water at a matched temp (or get it there on water change day), and I would have a drain easily accessible.
 
Unless you were talking about a whole house RO system, which I think is probably way more money than I was planning on spending?

 

[DrRob]

There are definitely pumps strong enough to do that, but costs start to rise.
 
The lack of a drain is more of an issue.
 
I have the joy of being able to leave my water cans on the underfloor heating. Gets them to about 22C fairly reliably, but it probably counts as cheating.
 
I suppose it depends a whole lot on what the pressure at the shower spigot is really like. You could always pump the RO machine.

 

[StevenF]

1. Would your average shower spicket provide enough pressure to get the unit working appropriately?
 

 
Never seen one connected in this way.  The spicket should be full on to insure the pressure is equal to your house system pressure.  You can get a pressure meter from the hardware store to verify your system pressure is adiquate for the RO system you intend to purchase,  The installation manual should have the water supply specifications.
 

2. Anyone have good recommendations for pumps that could pump the water from the reservoir through a hose of about 15-20 feet into my tank so I don't have to carry buckets?
 

 
Most of the time the water storage container has an air bladder inside that keeps the water pressurized.  Most come with a 10 to 5 gallon tank.  Larger Tanks are available but I have never looked for 55 gallon (which would probably be special order).  If it is a pressurized tank you would not need a pump.
 

3. Any specific recommendations on products for adding GH and KH back into the water?
 

 
You need to add all trace elements that plants need otherwise all your plants will die.  Typically they do include calcium and magnesium but that wasn't enough for shrimp and all died in my first two attempts.  Since then I have supplemented the plant trace fertilizer with Calcium carbonate and Magnesium carbonate right up to the saturation point which is still quite soft.  I also think it is a good idea to supplement iodine.  Plants don't need it but animals do.  Yes your fish food should have some iodine  but my experience is indicating this is was not enough.  

 

[jag51186]

 

1. Would your average shower spicket provide enough pressure to get the unit working appropriately?
 

 
Never seen one connected in this way.  The spicket should be full on to insure the pressure is equal to your house system pressure.  You can get a pressure meter from the hardware store to verify your system pressure is adiquate for the RO system you intend to purchase,  The installation manual should have the water supply specifications.
 
2. Anyone have good recommendations for pumps that could pump the water from the reservoir through a hose of about 15-20 feet into my tank so I don't have to carry buckets?
 

 
Most of the time the water storage container has an air bladder inside that keeps the water pressurized.  Most come with a 10 to 5 gallon tank.  Larger Tanks are available but I have never looked for 55 gallon (which would probably be special order).  If it is a pressurized tank you would not need a pump.
 

3. Any specific recommendations on products for adding GH and KH back into the water?
 

 
You need to add all trace elements that plants need otherwise all your plants will die.  Typically they do include calcium and magnesium but that wasn't enough for shrimp and all died in my first two attempts.  Since then I have supplemented the plant trace fertilizer with Calcium carbonate and Magnesium carbonate right up to the saturation point which is still quite soft.  I also think it is a good idea to supplement iodine.  Plants don't need it but animals do.  Yes your fish food should have some iodine  but my experience is indicating this is was not enough.  
 


 
On point number 2, it would just be an open topped drum. Basically, just a reservoir for holding. I think a lot of people do it this way to have enough for water changes. Since, I have an 80 gallon tank, I will need a minimum of 40 gallons for the water changes I do...and if it is easy enough and I can temperature match appropriately, I will probably do even larger ones.
 
I'll have to do more research on the proper products to add to the water.
 
 

There are definitely pumps strong enough to do that, but costs start to rise.
 
The lack of a drain is more of an issue.
 
I have the joy of being able to leave my water cans on the underfloor heating. Gets them to about 22C fairly reliably, but it probably counts as cheating.
 
I suppose it depends a whole lot on what the pressure at the shower spigot is really like. You could always pump the RO machine.

 
Hmmm, pump the RO machine...I like how you think! And underfloor heating is definitely cheating!!  lol

 

[StevenF]

On point number 2, it would just be an open topped drum. Basically, just a reservoir for holding. I think a lot of people do it this way to have enough for water changes. Since, I have an 80 gallon tank, I will need a minimum of 40 gallons for the water changes I do...and if it is easy enough and I can temperature match appropriately, I will probably do even larger ones.
 

 
Maybe it is common in the aquarium hobby but for large home RO systems a pressurized RO tanks are the dominate answer.  instant water, no pumps to maintain.  
 
I recently installed a RO system for my sister (her water is not safe to drink.   It was a basic home kit made by whirlpool.  The filters occupy an area of of about 12"X12"X6" inches.  it easily fits under the sink and has a hose that connects to the drain.   It will produce 18 gallons of RO water a day.  So unless you are doing water changes every day the filter assembly will be sufficient..  This could easily fit in a laundry room and tap into the water supply and drain there.   if you have 20"X20"X48" area  nearby you could  add a 40 gallon RO pressurized water tank there.  
 
http/www.lowes.com/pd_129808-47429-WHER25_0__?productId=50139856&store_code=1895&cm_mmc=SCE_PLARoughPlumbingElectricalWaterTreatment50139856:Whirlpool&CAWELAID=&kpid=50139856&CAWELAID=320011480001765081&k_clickID=621408d8-825d-4d09-9dbe-5e13a81075f7
 
http/www.apswater.com/article.asp?id=80&title=Bladder+Tank+Capacity+Charts
 

The more pressure the better, more pressure leads to less wastage per drum of RO.
 

 
Sorry not true.  The waist water flow is determined by a small hole  in a small piece of metal or plastic.  turn up the pressure increases the flow of water through the small hole, increasing the amount of waist water discharge.  I have installed two sink RO units and worked on multiple different DI water chillers at work.  All use the same filter flow control device, a small hole.  Also note that if you decrease the waist water discharge rate you could reduce the life of the RO membrane by causing it to saturate with minerals faster.
 
so there is no advantage to placing the RO unit closest to more utility water connection.  Also you have to be careful not to over pressure the RO membrane.  Too much pressure will cause the RO membrane to rupture.The only benefit of higher pressure is faster productions of RO water.
 

You could always pump the RO machine.
 

There are RO units out there that do have a pump.   The main purpose of the pump is to generate enough waist water pressure so that the waist water can be put back into the water pipes.  This would eliminate the waist since it would then be used in the shower or toilet.  However the pump adds cost, increases the size, and is another part to break and repair.

 

[DrRob]

I suppose I may be more used to lower pressure systems in the UK. There is a level at which RO units like to operate with regards to pressure, and below this (as I was imagining might be the case with a shower spigot) a pump may help.

 

[jag51186]

Good info all around. I wasn't really planning on getting a whole house unit, was planning to get one of the RODI units that will get me down to 0 TDS completely. A lot of the home ones that I have seen, don't get you all the way to 0 consistently, though I haven't honestly looked into it super extensively yet. I could potentially fit a pressurized tank into my laundry room, but if you are using a pressurized tank, how would I heat the water to the appropriate temperature for the water change??

 

[StevenF]

was planning to get one of the RODI units that will get me down to 0 TDS completely. A lot of the home ones that I have seen, don't get you all the way to 0 consistently
 

My RO system gets the water down to  a GH of about25ppm consistantly.   My sisters unit is doing just as well.  Both are producing water cleanier than your typical utility tap water.  Getting TDS down to zero is very difficult and increases the expense of the system.  DI systems can do it but you would probably go through filters very fast.  There is no benifit to getting TDS down to 0 and you will not find water that clean in nature.  
 

I could potentially fit a pressurized tank into my laundry room, but if you are using a pressurized tank, how would I heat the water to the appropriate temperature for the water change??
 

If your home is heated to 70 and the laundry room is heated then difference between the aquarium and your tank may not be significant enough to worry about.  You could also put the pressurized tank insdie the heater.  For example  you could wrap the tank with an electric blanket.  Keeping the tank warmer than the room  (I have never done this but I don't see why it wouldn't work.  There are also companies that sell electric heat tape that is sometimes used to prevent water pipes from freezing.  

 

[DrRob]

Was going to suggest home brew products for getting a tank of water warmed up. There are some good blankets and heaters out there for that purpose, although, as Steve says, it may not be a big enough difference to worry about too much.