return of the dropsy

[tednelson83]

i just loset another columbian tetra to dropsy. the first one i had was the only one in the tank. i lost him 2 to 3 months ago. several weeks after that i bought 2 more, and i lost one of them to the same illness last night. they reside in my 15 gallon, by the way. i went to the fish store and the owner recomended kanamycin to innocculate the other fish. my questions are, should i move the fish to another tank, or use my main tank? if i move them they are getting placed in a 5 gallon bucket. if i use my main, will the medicine hurt my plants and ghost shrimp, or should i move them to my 29 gallon?

water has been tested, and is good. nitrates are a little high, but tolerable. i plan to do a 50% water change be fore i medicate, does anyone dissagree with that?

 

[tttnjfttt]

water has been tested, and is good. nitrates are a little high, but tolerable. i plan to do a 50% water change be fore i medicate, does anyone dissagree with that?

[snapback]870048[/snapback]​

I'll disagree with you Even though the nitrates are high, a drastic change will really stress out your fish. I would recomend doing no more than a 25% change at once. You can do a few smaller changes in a day. Exactly how high are they? Also, because of the number of newbies on this site, can you also post your exact ammonia and nitrite readings? I've had too many people say they are fine, when in reality, there are underlying problems.

Make sure you quarentine the infected fish, because dropsye is highly lethal, and you don't want hte tank mates to pick at the dead body, which can spread the disease even further.

 

[tttnjfttt]

Not the author of this...


Dropsy

Symptoms:

This disease is very common among African Cichlids, and is commonly called "Malawi Bloat," even though it affects fish from Lakes Tanganyika and Victoria. Dropsy is also very common within the Carp family and among Anabantids. It is characterized by swelling of the body and especially abdomen, which causes the scales to stand out with a pine cone appearance. Eyes may protrude or cave in. Reddening at the vent and/or base of fins may be observable as well as body ulcers and long pale feces. In advanced cases, skin discoloration and scale loss may also occur. Sick fish will not show any desire for food. They will often hang near the bottom, resting on the gravel, or at the top, gasping for air. In the latter stages of this disease, the fish may lose its equilibrium and hence ability to swim properly.


Cause:

Three main causes for Dropsy have been identified. The over use of salt (NaCl), prolonged exposure to poor water conditions, and improper diet, which lead to a parasitic infection. Other causes include poisoning, internal injuries and cancerous tumors. The swelling is not the disease itself, but rather a symptom, which is caused by a build-up of fluids in the body cavity due to internal organ failure.


Treatment:

Treatment of this disease is difficult, as by the time it is recognized, permanent damage to the internal organs of the fish will have occurred. Immediate treatment must be performed if there is to be any chance for survival. Metronidazole (Flagyl) and or Clout are the best medications for treatment of Dropsy. Notwithstanding, not much is known for certain about the etiology of this disease and some experienced aquarists use antibiotics to fight Dropsy. For oxytetracycline, baths of 20-100 mg/litre for five days is suggested. For tetracycline hydrochloride, treat with baths of 40-100 mg/litre for five days. And for minocycline hydrochloride a dilution of 250mg/10 gallons of water is recommended. On day 2 change all the water and add the medicine again at the same dose for another 2 days. Increase aeration during treatment. Do not use minocycline a third time in a row. Caution: tetracyclines are photo sensitive so turn the tank lights off during treatment and cover the whole tank with a blanket. If the fish is still eating, you can soak the food in a concentrated solution of the antibiotic before feeding.

 

[tednelson83]

water has been tested, and is good. nitrates are a little high, but tolerable. i plan to do a 50% water change be fore i medicate, does anyone dissagree with that?

[snapback]870048[/snapback]​

I'll disagree with you Even though the nitrates are high, a drastic change will really stress out your fish. I would recomend doing no more than a 25% change at once. You can do a few smaller changes in a day. Exactly how high are they? Also, because of the number of newbies on this site, can you also post your exact ammonia and nitrite readings? I've had too many people say they are fine, when in reality, there are underlying problems.

Make sure you quarentine the infected fish, because dropsye is highly lethal, and you don't want hte tank mates to pick at the dead body, which can spread the disease even further.

[snapback]870061[/snapback]​

well, i had lost the one fish at the time of the initial posting. he had only been gone for a couple of hours MAX when i removed him.

water levels are as follows,
ammonia=0 PPM
nitrite=0 PPM
nitrate=40 ppm
hardness=120 ppm
buffering=180 ppm
ph=7.6

how would i administer the Kanamycin? do i need to remove my plants? it is a moderately planted tank.

 

[tednelson83]

anyone?

 

[black angel]

When you see a fish with dropsy either pineconing or not then the chances of successfully treating it is very slim. As its bacterial or viral based and centred at the kidney then any treatment is too late. Meds added to the water only treat the bacteria in the tank and not in the fish. Epsom salt has some results but often the dropsy returns. As for injecting the fish, i havent seen any fish recover successfully. Some vets can draw the fluid out with a needle and then inject with antibiotics but success with that method is only a little bit more successfull than the external meds.
Whatever is infecting your fish is in the tank and upping your cleaning regime to keep bad bacteria down is the only way you can manage it. Quarantining new fish as well is really important. It doesnt matter that your tests for ammonia etc are clear, bacteria levels cant be tested for.

 

[tttnjfttt]

I could be wrong on this one, but I don't believe dropsey is contagious unless the fish pick at the body of the survivors. My biggest concern would be to figure out what is causing the dropsey rather than treating every fish wiht antibiotics.

 

[tttnjfttt]

I did some research on this one, and I didn't find anything on my favorite websites saying it was contagious. I did see to treat dropsy as if it were contagious, simply to avoid canibalism.

Take from http/www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/hddropsy.htm

Dropsy is not usually considered to be particularly contagious, so it should not spread to other healthy fish - dead fish should be removed immediately however, to avoid cannibalism. However, bear in mind that there is more than one cause of dropsy, so in some cases the infective agent could be contagious. It is preferable to carry out treatment in a hospital tank where available.

 

[tednelson83]

ok, so would it be useful to try the meds any way to eliminate possible free floating bacteria in the tank, or should i take it back?

what are some causes, and what can i do to eliminate them? i do regular water changes of 5 gallons in my 15g, and 10 gallons in my 29g weekly. as well as cleaning any floating plants and other material, and vacuuming periodically. filter media is checked and rinsed every water change or sometime in between. filters and water are not changed in the same day. they are fed flake food mornings and evenings before lights out, freeze dried blood worms on evenings, and frozen food every once in a while.

am i doing something wrong?

 

[tednelson83]

bump

 

[black angel]

I personally would use the meds in case there is high levels of bacteria in the tank. If you can, seperate the infected fish to lessen any chance of infecting the others and treat that one as well, though it may be too late.
After the treatment do small water changes every day and use a gravel vac. When buying new fish quarantine for a month before adding to an existing set up. You have to assume that any new fish you buy will be either carrying bacteria or parasites and sometimes both.

 

[tednelson83]

well, i cant exactly separate the infected fish sense he is dead and was flushed and i am doing this as a preventative measure to ensure that no other fish suffer the same fate.

i am assuming that this stuff will not affect my plants or shrimp sense no one has said a single word in response to those questions.

 

[black angel]

Never used the meds you have so i'm afraid i dont know. Like most people here we are only hobbyists and can only go from personal experiences and what we read. I think your best plan is to do plenty of water changes over the next few days and invest in a quarantine tank.

 

[tttnjfttt]

I have no experience with meds and plants or shimp either. How about searching the planted and invertibret sections, i'm sure there are previous quesions about antibiotics and plants/shripm in there.

 

[tednelson83]

I have no experience with meds and plants or shimp either. How about searching the planted and invertibret sections, i'm sure there are previous quesions about antibiotics and plants/shripm in there.

[snapback]872818[/snapback]​

i have been on enough forums to know that people get mad at you if you dont push that search button before you start typing. my search came up empty, so i thought i would ask and see if anyone knew.

i just dropped 2 capsules in and i will report back with the results for th next guy that uses the search button.