Reflections about the nitrogen cycle...

Avel1896

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Hello,
I've read many times that there is no need of nitrogen cycle as long as :
- there is no ground, so no planted plants,
- even if there are roots and plants attached on wood,
allowing fishes to be added without waiting the "traditional" 4-5 weeks.
Is that true ?

Is there a generic term to describle this kind of plant-attached-on-root, whatever the plant/prop ?
For example :

plante.jpg
 

Uberhoust

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Fish generate ammonia as part of their normal living processes, rotting things can produce ammonia (fish food). Not having plants or substrate does nothing to change this ammonia production. Eventually, if you do not have an established bed of nitrifying bacteria (in filter or substrate) you will end up with an accumulation of ammonia and or nitrite. Both ammonia and nitrites are poisonous at low concentrations. Until the aquarium has enough of nitrifying bacteria to convert the ammonia to nitrite then to nitrate you will have issues with poisons in your tank caused by fish's wastes. I have not read any respectable literature to suggest you do not need nitrifying bacteria in your aquarium, if you have come across some literature suggesting this I would like to see a link.

That said there are some people who propose starting the nitrogen cycle with some fish present, this is not the same as not having a nitrogen cycle. I don't want to get into this debate but if you are interested try searching for Fish Free vs Fish used in Cycling New Aquariums, you will find a lot of opinions.
 

Slaphppy7

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Hello,
I've read many times that there is no need of nitrogen cycle as long as :
- there is no ground, so no planted plants,
- even if there are roots and plants attached on wood,
allowing fishes to be added without waiting the "traditional" 4-5 weeks.
Is that true ?

Is there a generic term to describle this kind of plant-attached-on-root, whatever the plant/prop ?
For example :

View attachment 128856
I've never read this, and don't agree with any of it.
 
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Avel1896

Avel1896

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I can post link to a topic from a french forum where a Killi breeder explains this "method".

Edit : this person also says that cleaning by siphoning excretion once a week is enough
 

StevenF

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Ammonia can be addressed in two ways having nitrifying bacteria or by having growing plants. While nitrifying bacteria will grow in a tank regardless of what we do. Many prefer to cycle a tank with ammonia before adding plant while other just add the fish and do more water changes until the bacteria can keep up. Plants are different. They need nutrients to grow. There are 14 of them and one is nitrogen. Plants will consume ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. So if your tank has all of the nutrients except nitrogen the plants will consume ammonia to grow. for plants to keep you ammonia levels in check they must be growing. They won't consume ammonia if they are not growing. They also have to be growing fast enough to keep up with the amount produced by your fish.

This means plants will work best in a lightly stocked tank. In a heavily stocked tank your plants may need high light and CO2 and fertilizer to keep up with the ammonia production. So it is better to aim for a lightly stocked tank and to slowly add fish so that you can monitor ammonia levels. This big problem with this process is that you do need 13 nutrients in the water. No nutrients no plant growth.

So in most cases you need to at least lightly fertilize a tank preferably with a fertilizer that doesn't have ammonia. If the fertilization is not right you will have algae. Now ifish do produce mosts of the 13 needed nutrients so If you have just the right levels of nutrients to fish and the right amount of a weekly water change. you can get good results. But at least most of the time a light dosing of fertilizer will be needed. Whatever fertilizer you use make sure it has potassium, calcium, magnesium, phosphate, sulfur, chloride, iron, manganese, boron, Zinc, copper, molybdenum and nickel. If you are lucky your tap water will have all of those but in most cases that is not the case.

Now even without soil you still can have a planted tank There are plants that float on the surface of the water such as slavinia, frog bit, and water lets and other plants such as Anubias produce roots that will kling to rocks or wood. Moss can also attach itself to wire or plastic mesh. So it may tank a bit or creativity but is it possible to have a planted tank without a substrate.
 
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Avel1896

Avel1896

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This person is a Killi breeder for 45 years and a member of Killi Club de France.
 

Slaphppy7

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He's just saying plants attached to rocks are easy to remove to collect eggs, then says no need to cycle the bin, but no explanation why...
 
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Avel1896

Avel1896

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I don't think there is english version, but I can translate it as I'm French... and if you think I'm not too bad in english ;)
 

Utar

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Back in the day when I got my first tank, I did an aquarium without cycling it. Within the first week I had lost half my fish, second week I only had one. I didn't know any better back then, so I have proved to myself that Not Cycling = Dead Fish.
 
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Avel1896

Avel1896

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Back in the day when I got my first tank, I did an aquarium without cycling it. Within the first week I had lost half my fish, second week I only had one. I didn't know any better back then, so I have proved to myself that Not Cycling = Dead Fish.
That's what I think.
So I wonder why he wrote that.....
 

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