Reef Tank And Tap Water Quality

[Sea Turtle]

I am new to the reef hobby. I have everything that I need to set up my 80 gal. reef tank. I have city water and want to know if I can use this to fill my tank as well as doing frequent water changes. I have been told that I have to buy my water from a store. Is this true?

Thankx

 

[MHunt]

I have heard that it is possible to use dechlorinated tap water for very hardy marines. That is about two tank bred species. In reality even the best tap water has high levels of nitrate that most marines will not tolerate.

You really need to use Reverse Osmosis water, either bought from your LFS to fill the tank and for water changes, or get an RO unit, and make your own. II don't keep marines myself, but for an 80 gal tank i would think that it would work out cheaper in the long run to get your own RO unit and make your own water when you need it. The RO unit takes most impurities out of the water such as nitrates, heavy metals and chlorine. You then add your salt mix to the correct salinity for your tank.

 

[BigIan]

yep you want Reverse osmosis water for a reef, basicly this is pure water thats been filtered, you will need to buy an ro unit it will work out A LOT cheaper than buying it from the LFS. ours takes about 2 hours to run off enough water for a water change we then mix salt with it then away you go...


good kluck mate

 

[Aphotic Phoenix]

Prob. best to post this in the Marine section of the forum. ^^ Sorry, it's down the list a bit!

 

[fishlette]

I have heard that it is possible to use dechlorinated tap water for very hardy marines. That is about two tank bred species. In reality even the best tap water has high levels of nitrate that most marines will not tolerate.

You really need to use Reverse Osmosis water, either bought from your LFS to fill the tank and for water changes, or get an RO unit, and make your own. II don't keep marines myself, but for an 80 gal tank i would think that it would work out cheaper in the long run to get your own RO unit and make your own water when you need it. The RO unit takes most impurities out of the water such as nitrates, heavy metals and chlorine. You then add your salt mix to the correct salinity for your tank.

this is not entirely true and depends on your location. for my marine tank at home, i use dechlorinated tap water. my tap water contains no nitrates. i keep 1 ocellaris clown, 1 black and white clown, a cowfish, a bi colour blenny, 1 yellow coral goby, a green coral goby, 2 peppermint shrimp, 2 crazy shrimp, 1 sarcophyton, 6 red & green morphs, 3 collector urchins....i could go on but i wont. this is a lot more than two tank bred species considering all are wild. and at my shop i also use the same process with my saltwater section.

it is possible to use tap water you just need to test the water for nitrates & pH etc before putting it in the tank. the author may very well be in an area where his tap water is fine.


if you do need to buy saltwater sea turtle it prob wouldnt be that much of an issue anyway as it would prob work out cheaper depending on what they charge where you live. its cheaper around here to buy water than some IO or something.

RO units are highly overated and a good protein skimmer would do a better job

 

[backtotropical]

I have heard that it is possible to use dechlorinated tap water for very hardy marines. That is about two tank bred species. In reality even the best tap water has high levels of nitrate that most marines will not tolerate.

You really need to use Reverse Osmosis water, either bought from your LFS to fill the tank and for water changes, or get an RO unit, and make your own. II don't keep marines myself, but for an 80 gal tank i would think that it would work out cheaper in the long run to get your own RO unit and make your own water when you need it. The RO unit takes most impurities out of the water such as nitrates, heavy metals and chlorine. You then add your salt mix to the correct salinity for your tank.

this is not entirely true and depends on your location. for my marine tank at home, i use dechlorinated tap water. my tap water contains no nitrates. i keep 1 ocellaris clown, 1 black and white clown, a cowfish, a bi colour blenny, 1 yellow coral goby, a green coral goby, 2 peppermint shrimp, 2 crazy shrimp, 1 sarcophyton, 6 red & green morphs, 3 collector urchins....i could go on but i wont. this is a lot more than two tank bred species considering all are wild. and at my shop i also use the same process with my saltwater section.

it is possible to use tap water you just need to test the water for nitrates & pH etc before putting it in the tank. the author may very well be in an area where his tap water is fine.


if you do need to buy saltwater sea turtle it prob wouldnt be that much of an issue anyway as it would prob work out cheaper depending on what they charge where you live. its cheaper around here to buy water than some IO or something.

RO units are highly overated and a good protein skimmer would do a better job

Sorry but i believe that to be very misguided. Marine tanks are a lot more sensitive to all sorts of things in the water which aren't at all critical if you are keeping a freshwater tank. ie. copper, phosphate etc, corals and invertebrates especially. There are lots of dissolved metals and such like in tap water and IMO dechlorinated tap water just doesn't cut it.

I would like to see a marine setup using only dechlorinated water, but IMO it would only survive if at all, not thrive.

I would recommend an RO system or at very least a de-ioniser for your water(RO is best). These remove all the impurities which is of utmost importance with saltwater.

I am quite new to this forum and have no experience of the marine section, but i can recommend www.ultimatereef.net. It is dedicated to marines only and you'll get some good advice there if you are still unsure. Hope this helps and good luck.

 

[andywg]

it is possible to use tap water you just need to test the water for nitrates & pH etc before putting it in the tank. the author may very well be in an area where his tap water is fine.

Why bother testing for pH? The marine salt will completely alter the pH.

RO units are highly overated and a good protein skimmer would do a better job

Hmm, I'm not so sure.

A skimmer removes dissolved organic compounds, most normally hyrdophobic proteins, before they have a chance to break down and produce ntriogenous waste.

An RO unit removes most dissolved solids from the water including copper, nitrates, phsophates, silicates and heavy metals.

Two completely different functions, so not really comparable. It would be like saying your lights do a better job than your powerheads.

I am a proponent of choice when doing marines, but once you are into a reef situation then RO water really is the best thing. If you want some history of this, look through the topics started by Lynden. He originally started with tap water, and for a short time it was alright, but then he started to have trouble. After switching to RO the troubles faded.

If you are not keeping the sensitive inverts like corals and such from a reef, then tap water is probably not so bad, but for a reef I would always recommend the RO route.

 

[fishlette]

fair call on the pH. tis just something i always keep an eye on...kinda like habit i guess

i was going to get all defensive about the other issue but i guess in short, our tap water quality here is exceptional. i test my tap water for every including whatever metals i can etc etc etc i now have a kindly donated protein skimmer that although its overkill it keeps my water incredibly well. even other marine people in this area dont use RO.

basically i was relating my experience. although i talk a lot here and take a lot in, i have basically been following the guidelines of my mate who runs the marine where i get everything. he really knows his stuff (not saying anyone here doesnt, its just...i know him and i see his tanks and his corals and all that so i know he is telling me the right way to do everything) he has taken me step by step through everything and what i have is the same as the water in his coral tanks. my tank is also thriving. all i mean is for some places it works. if im not the only one in my area then that says something. never once did i say that it was OK all the time. if anything, a person should be able to relate personal experience...if ive experienced something different naturally i would say so

 

[backtotropical]

Didn't mean to make you feel defensive Fishlette. I'm new to the forum and don't want to cause any trouble. My point about the RO water is, wherever you stay in the world, if you run your water through a RO unit, it will remove some impurities and this can only be good for the tank inhabitants. I always strived to have the best possible conditions for my little marine mates, and using RO water provided that. I'd be interested to see your tank. It would never have crossed my mind that anyone could use unfiltered tap water. Any pics??

Sorry for hijacking this thread!!

 

[MHunt]

I guess my comment about only being able to keep about 2 species in tap water was an exaggeration, it is probably more but that wasn't my point. If you are fortunate to live in an area where the tap water is of exceptional quality, then fine. I also think that given the cost of marines compared to tropicals I wouldn't trust any fish to anything other than the best conditions.

 

[fishlette]

Didn't mean to make you feel defensive Fishlette. I'm new to the forum and don't want to cause any trouble. My point about the RO water is, wherever you stay in the world, if you run your water through a RO unit, it will remove some impurities and this can only be good for the tank inhabitants. I always strived to have the best possible conditions for my little marine mates, and using RO water provided that. I'd be interested to see your tank. It would never have crossed my mind that anyone could use unfiltered tap water. Any pics??

Sorry for hijacking this thread!!

i know how the RO works etc i just also trust the guidance of the people around here who have been dealing in marine, both fish & inverts etc for years and who all comment on how lucky we are here blah blah blah lol i guess voting for the guy who wanted to improve water quality eg; mainly replacing old copper pipes, a couple of elections ago helped us more than we thought lol

in case you were indicating otherwise, i also try to offer the best for all my fish not just marine and if is aw anything other than thriving fish and corals etc then i would change my ways also. i do have pics of tank but not recent. i will take some pics tonight when i get home from the shop and post them in a new thread prob in marine section.

mhunt - What you say about price is very true hence why if i thought anything would be an issue for my little friends i would change it. but why fix what isnt broken?? i test my water for everything i can and nothing ever present. even took a sample to a pool shop to see if they can test for other stuff which they could and found no traces of stuff as the guy had suspected already as even he was aware that our water is fine. this is why i ad to say my view also. im sure i am not the only person that lives in a place where the water quality is quite good. and no offence to anyone here, but i trust what i can see. my mate runs one of the most well known marine aquariums in my city comprising of one of the biggest selection of corals etc and he uses dechlorinated tap water. i might even get some pics of his tanks tonight when i pop inn for some more morphs.

i know i just sound all argumentative and you're all sitting there thinking 'she'll change her ways soon' and who knows how it will end up. i just know how my situation is. twas the same before i bought my shop and i was just working there. we had marine then including nems and corals and once again, all n top water. they thrived, ate, grew and did really well. even though the section was dismantled before i bought the shop, i have got the marine running again and once again, on tap water. will try and photograph them as well today.

for the record again, this is my experience with it all. i am not saying to anyone to go out willy nilly and use dechlor tap water from any old tap. just providing a little 'outside the square' type thinking i guess

 

[andywg]

That's all very well, but your original statement of

RO units are highly overated and a good protein skimmer would do a better job

is extremely misleading, and basicly down right incorrect. Tap water is just not a good option for 99% of people out there. And as I stated before, comparing it to a skimmer is like chalk and cheese.

Most people who say how good RO is are based on the writings of marine keeping proffesionals, like Bob Fenner and Dr Ronald Shimek. While you may trust those nearby who seem to have good results, I will prefer to advise on the side of caution for reef keeping based on people who have made keeping reefs their job. But to each their own.

Were it just Marine fish keeping then tap water is fine, but for reefs with sensitive inverts (especially once you hit stony corals) then tap water tends to contain too many impurities and nutrients that are undesired.

I guess my comment about only being able to keep about 2 species in tap water was an exaggeration, it is probably more but that wasn't my point. If you are fortunate to live in an area where the tap water is of exceptional quality, then fine. I also think that given the cost of marines compared to tropicals I wouldn't trust any fish to anything other than the best conditions.

This is only important in keeping sensitive marine inverts, such as coral. As I state above, marine fish aren't all that bothered by what is in the tap water, so long as a decent de-chlor is used they are fine. low nitrates in marine keeping are essential for the inverts, not the fish.

 

[fishlette]

That's all very well, but your original statement of

RO units are highly overated and a good protein skimmer would do a better job

is extremely misleading, and basicly down right incorrect. Tap water is just not a good option for 99% of people out there. And as I stated before, comparing it to a skimmer is like chalk and cheese.

Most people who say how good RO is are based on the writings of marine keeping proffesionals, like Bob Fenner and Dr Ronald Shimek. While you may trust those nearby who seem to have good results, I will prefer to advise on the side of caution for reef keeping based on people who have made keeping reefs their job. But to each their own.

Were it just Marine fish keeping then tap water is fine, but for reefs with sensitive inverts (especially once you hit stony corals) then tap water tends to contain too many impurities and nutrients that are undesired.

I guess my comment about only being able to keep about 2 species in tap water was an exaggeration, it is probably more but that wasn't my point. If you are fortunate to live in an area where the tap water is of exceptional quality, then fine. I also think that given the cost of marines compared to tropicals I wouldn't trust any fish to anything other than the best conditions.

This is only important in keeping sensitive marine inverts, such as coral. As I state above, marine fish aren't all that bothered by what is in the tap water, so long as a decent de-chlor is used they are fine. low nitrates in marine keeping are essential for the inverts, not the fish.

ok, im not keeping this going anymore. tis way to easy for people to pick a sentence and roll with that. i know how things are for me and if im not able to pass on my stuff then i think this forum isnt for me. basically what youre saying to me is that im wrong, my experienced friends are wrong and in reality im being called a liar. oh and that you are the right one. maybe in your world you are but riddle me this: how can it be working if it cant be done??? anyway, ill keep doing my thing cause it works and so be it for now. how can a shop keep over 40 corals at a time in dechlor tap water and still be known for their quality if RO was needed?

ive said what i came into the thread to say. i dont come here to argue yet it seems all you ever get, if by chance you say smething other than what anyone here might have known. i cant believe how many people on here are so ready to make it sound like they are higher and mightier than anyone else and in the process make the other person look like a moron all because they have found they are able to do thigns a different way. i have pm'd the author with a full explanation of what i am tlaking about, also telling him that this obviously isnt something that can be done by anyone. as far as im concerned, thats the end of it. reply if you will but i have enough going on in my life without coming on here and having to defend myself


This is only important in keeping sensitive marine inverts, such as coral. As I state above, marine fish aren't all that bothered by what is in the tap water, so long as a decent de-chlor is used they are fine. low nitrates in marine keeping are essential for the inverts, not the fish.

i love how its automatically assumed i dont know this. i do believe on a few occasions i have referred to corals etc. and my belief is that if you do things right, your nitrates should be low to zero anyway. well mine always are and i guess in this instance thats whats being called into question

 

[andywg]

ok, im not keeping this going anymore. tis way to easy for people to pick a sentence and roll with that. i know how things are for me and if im not able to pass on my stuff then i think this forum isnt for me. basically what youre saying to me is that im wrong, my experienced friends are wrong and in reality im being called a liar. oh and that you are the right one. maybe in your world you are but riddle me this: how can it be working if it cant be done??? anyway, ill keep doing my thing cause it works and so be it for now. how can a shop keep over 40 corals at a time in dechlor tap water and still be known for their quality if RO was needed?

I am not disputing what you said.

You finished with that sentence I quoted, I pointed out how it is completely wrong to compare an RO unit with a skimmer. You may be lucky and have tap water free of silicates and phosphates and nitrates and all the heavy metals that cause problems for fishkeepers. As I stated, many others have followed your path and ended in tragedy. To not point out that you are the exception and not the rule would be negligent on the part of those members who have seen all the people with huge algae outbreaks from using tap water.

I shall repeat, you cannot compare an RO unit to a skimmer. It's that simple. They do completely different things. Simple as that.

Good for your for trusting those near you that you can observe with success. I don't have anyone that keeps reefs without RO near me. I also tend to check the writings of eminent fishkeepers and marine scientists. They all point out the huge benefits of using RO over tap water.

ive said what i came into the thread to say. i dont come here to argue yet it seems all you ever get, if by chance you say smething other than what anyone here might have known. i cant believe how many people on here are so ready to make it sound like they are higher and mightier than anyone else and in the process make the other person look like a moron all because they have found they are able to do thigns a different way. i have pm'd the author with a full explanation of what i am tlaking about, also telling him that this obviously isnt something that can be done by anyone. as far as im concerned, thats the end of it. reply if you will but i have enough going on in my life without coming on here and having to defend myself

So, in essence, you stated what you had to say, and don't like it that others have had different experiences and your advice may not be the best and now you will refuse to debate further. Would that be a fair interpretation?

Look, I am all for different views on keeping SW. I am the first to defend anyone not using LR but a cannister or even UGF. However, when it comes to reefs, there are too many people who have no ends of trouble that even I have to recommend RO. The number of people who have great success without RO are far fewer than those with RO.

However, if you actually review what I have said, I have never stated your situation is not correct, or true. I first took issue with your comment that a skimmer did just as good a job as RO, which is just plain misleading as each performs a massively different function from the other. I can't see anywhere that I have stated you personally should have an RO unit, I just pointed out almost everyone else will be better off with one.

This is only important in keeping sensitive marine inverts, such as coral. As I state above, marine fish aren't all that bothered by what is in the tap water, so long as a decent de-chlor is used they are fine. low nitrates in marine keeping are essential for the inverts, not the fish.

i love how its automatically assumed i dont know this. i do believe on a few occasions i have referred to corals etc. and my belief is that if you do things right, your nitrates should be low to zero anyway. well mine always are and i guess in this instance thats whats being called into question

A brief review of my post will enlighten you to the fact I was replying to mhunt, not you.

 

[fishlette]

andywg - ok, after a day away from my shop, some much needed sleep and a chance to read the post again, i think ive figured out where this all went sideways lol as much as i dont like to make excuses, when youre running your own shop with no staff so you are working 48 hours a week plus coming home and spending whatever hours of the day are left doing paperwork while trying to keep the small zoo i have here fed and happy, you start to struggle in some areas you dont realise until something happens. in my constant tiredness, i was reading my posts how i meant them to be but not how they were lol before i go any further, i will apologise for my grumpiness and defensiveness before and also responding to a statement made that wasnt aimed at me

after reading back through my post, i didnt really take the extra effort needed to make sure i had explained what i meant when it was originally said.

RO units are highly overated and a good protein skimmer would do a better job if i could say this over again i would say: 'in my area, due to the water quality RO units arent necessary for keeping a reef. to keep everything healthy all i need is a good protein skimmer etc therefore this makes RO overated for me.' i didnt mean that you only need a protein skimmer cause it does the same job as the RO.

i was always aware of the fact that this is not the case for everyone which is why i tried to say that even in the first post.

in my defence though, it is hard sometimes because people can pounce on you if you say something a little left field and i was fully expecting opposition so i guess the guard is already up. see im comfortable with it in my environment here because thats the way it is here but you say something like this in a place where most people HAVE to use RO, then you might as well be saying that you can keep a sting ray in a 10g freshwater tank.

anyhoo, apologies again. i hate it when you get so tired you're not even yourself on the upside, i have hired someone now so i get some time off

p.s. there was something i forgot to say in response to:

So, in essence, you stated what you had to say, and don't like it that others have had different experiences and your advice may not be the best and now you will refuse to debate further. Would that be a fair interpretation?

no, this isnt a fair interpretation. basically i was just saying that if i was continually going to have to defend myself, i didnt feel the need to continue cause it would go nowhere. some debates arent worth it. talk to me about animal cruelty, global warming or the crippling drought in my area and i will give it all the time in the world. but when it come to a subject like this, i just dont think its worth the time and energy expended.