Really Struggling To Complete 1st Cycle In New Tank

[John_Gresty]

Hiya this is my first post so please go easy, i am totally new to keep tropical fish, my dad has them and is also at a loose end with my problem.

6 weeks ago i bought the Fluval Edge 23litre tank complete with 3 part Fluval edge filtration system. I followed all the steps and left the tank for two weeks before adding any fish as i had a case of bacterial bloom which took a while to calm down.

Before adding fish i had the water tested and all was fine, i initially added 6 cherry barbs and after a week i had the water tested again and all was looking normal, Ph , nitrate 0 and nitrate 0 but ammonia was at 0.25 which i expected (as i then expected that to drop nitrite to raise then the same with the nitrate) then its all gone downhill.

Basically a week later i went to get the water tested again to see how things were and all levels were the same bar the ammonia which was up to 8.0, i then stopped feeding them and did two 50% over the next week with no avail, the ammonia was still at 8.0. By this point even the man in the pet shop was baffled so i turned to Special blend bacterial addictive as it was apparent the tank wasn't producing any bacteria to convert the ammonia into nitrite.

Over the last week the ammonia is sitting at about 2.0 but still no sign or nitrite or nitrate. yesterday i moved two of the barbs across to my dads tank just so i haven't got as many fish urinating in there.

Im at a point no where iv had so many contradicting theory's and stories i don't quite know what to do, i have turned the heater up so its sitting at 25oC in the hope bacteria will start to grow with higher temps.

The strangest part is the Cherry barbs are more then happy no fish loss etc.

 

[fluttermoth]

I'm afraid your problem is really quite simple; you have fish in an uncycled tank.

Just running a tank does nothing to encourage the growth of the bacteria you need; they won't grow unless they have food, in the form of ammonia. Usually you would add ammonia (bought a a household cleaner) on a regular basis until the bacteria have grown enough to support the fish. This is a fishless cycle.

What you're doing is a 'fish-in' cycle, and as you have found out, it can be very hard on fish. your barbs might not be showing signs of illness (fish, like most animals, are very good at hiding how sick they are, so as to avoid attention from predators) but the raised ammonia will be damaging their gills, preventing them from taking up oxygen efficiently; ammonia can affect their long term health too.

The most important thing you can do is reduce the ammonia, with water changes; large and/or multiple ones a day, if necessary; start with a 90% one ASAP, making sure the new water is temperature matched and dechlorinated, of course. You really need your own test kits for ammonia and nitrite, as you should be testing for both of those, every day, and doing enough water changes to stop either of them ever getting above 0.25ppm.

You can also add a bit (up to a third, as long as it's replaced with new) of the filter media from your dad's tank to your filter, which hopefully should give your bacterial colony a head start.

 

[John_Gresty]

i have only followed the rules of aquarium shop and exactly how my dad did his, i now have my own testing kit and have been testing daily, hense how i know it is down to 2.0ppm.

See you say do daily water changes but i have been told now im adding the special blend all the water changes will do is dilute the bacteria i am adding along with stalling the cycle. And even when i did do two 50% water changes in 48 hours there was stil no change in ammonia levels.

 

[phoenixgsd]

nothing will dilute the bacteria, that is growing in your filter quite nicely and as long as the filter dosnt come into contact with tap water that hasnt been dechlorinated it will continue to grow, have a read of the link in my signature, it will explain the fish in cycling to you, if you have any questions after reading it just ask, but in short you need a liquid based test kit and dechlorinator along with lots and lots of water changes

 

[fluttermoth]

It would be a good idea to test your tap water, just to make sure there's no ammonia in it, but water changes will bring the level down, if you do ones that are large enough.

As phoenix says, the bacteria live almost exclusively (there maybe a negligible amount on the substrate/decor, in an established tank, but none loose in the water column) in your filter, so multiple/large water changes won't affect your cycle, except to make it go slower than a fishless one, but there's nothing you can do about that, if you want the fish to stay healthy.

There's very little faith in the bacterial starter products on this forum (although a few people have had good results), and anyway, the fish should be your priority, in this situation, and they won't stay well for long with those kinds of levels of ammonia.

Still the best thing you can do is add some of your dad's filter media (as long as he doesn't replace it or wash it out in tap water, of course; if he does, there won't be any bacteria in there either!); that should almost instantly cycle your tank.

I know you're following the advice of your dad and the shop. but honestly fishkeeping has come on leaps and bounds in the last few years, largely thanks to forums like this one, where people can learn and exchange the very latest techniques, and what they're telling you is very likely ten to fifteen years out of date.

 

[John_Gresty]

My dads tank has been established for over 18months and he has the same tank so yesterday i swopped the complete media unit and today i fitted a new heater to get the temp up to 25oC as it was origninally sitting at about 19oC.

This afternoon i have seen signs of white algae on the inside glass which is a good sign straight away, i have just done a 50% water change now and done a test and can see the ammonia has drop ever so slightly already so for the next few days i will do 50% changes until the levels are right down, and i will only feed them once a week to keep waste to a minimum.

Im more then happy to listen to new advise and i appreciate everyone input and quick response, just so much harder then i initially thought, so many contradicting opinions.

 

[fluttermoth]

If the ammonia is still not zero, then you need to do another water change now, and carry on doing them until it is.

You need to get it to zero because fish will be producing ammonia all the time, and obviously there'll be times when you're asleep or at work and not able to do water changes, so it will start rising as soon as you stop water changing.

I'm also worrying about your dad's tank too now; you took all the mature media from it? If you did, you've now left his tank with no good bacteria

There aren't really that many conflicting opinions; you just haven't found the right sources of information (until now ).

 

[John_Gresty]

i apologise we changed two of the three parts as his was due for a 2 part replacement wednesday,

 

[fluttermoth]

Ah, well, if he's replacing the filter media at frequent intervals, there might not be that many bacteria in there anyway

Changing filter media is just a ploy by the manufacturers to get more money from you. You should never replace filter media unless it is literally falling apart (I've never had any media that did this), just wash it gently in some old tank water; just to get the 'dirt' off, not to scrub them clean; the brown stains you might see on it are the bacterial colonies.

 

[John_Gresty]

im currently doing as you suggested an doing another water change and ill keep doing so until the ammonia has gone, what would you advise to do there after? daily water changes? feeding wise?

 

[fluttermoth]

Test the water every day, and if there is any ammonia or nitrite, do a large (leave just enough water for the fish to swim upright; make sure you remember to turn your heater/filter off first!) water change.

If you find the ammonia getting too high (which, in practice is anything over 0.25ppm) with once a day testing/water changing, then you'll have to do twice daily ones to keep the fish safe, I'm afraid.

As you're going to be doing lots of water changes, you don't need to be quite so sparing with the feeding; a small amount, every other day, will do. Reducing feeding helps only a little with ammonia levels anyway; a lot of the ammonia produced by fish is as a by product of respiration.

 

[John_Gresty]

Well i have just finished now, the ammonia level is down to 0

ill check tomorrow once i get in from work. what see i see over the next couple of days as obviously the ammonia will rise again?

 

[fluttermoth]

Yes, it will, I'm afraid! Hopefully not too quickly; at least water changes on an Edge are quick to do!

 

[John_Gresty]

will i need to be leaving 0.25ppm ammonia in the tank? as surely if i take all the ammonia out every day the nitrite will never rise in turn never allowing the nitrate to rise?

 

[fluttermoth]

No, you don't want to see any ammonia on your tests. Your filter will still cycle with an amount of ammonia that's too small to show up on our home test kits.