Really Need Help!

[Debbie_19]

I finished a fishless cycle about 2 weeks ago (took about 4 weeks with some mature filter media) Everything seemed fine for a week and i added in 9 female bettas last Thursday. (The tank is a 21 gallon) I checked the water stats on Saturday night and the nitrites had shot up. I done a largeish water change and added some salt into the water. I have been checking everyday since and the nitrite is now back to 0ppm but the ammonia has shot up now to 5ppm. I have been doing loads of water changes and adding some amono lock to try and detoxify it abit. The fish seem ok just now but really worried about them. I do not have anywhere to move then and cannot take them back due to the fact they were shipped to me from about 400 miles away from where i live.

Just so annoyed because my tank was def fully cycled before the fish went in. I thought mabey the nitrite spike was just due to the fact the fish were added and when it reduced to 0ppm i was happy but don't understand why the ammonia has now shot up. I have used decolrinater everytime i have done a water change and have not cleaned the filter media. The only thing i can thing of is the fact i tested PH llast night and it had fallen to about 6.6 and it is usually 7.5. Could this have caused a stall.

 

[Matty P]

Putting 9 bettas in at once is way too many fish! No wonder your levels shot up. You have to be patient and add your fish gradually.

 

[KimA]

Keep up with frequent water changes, should hopefully get on top of it eventually - definitely don't add any more fish till things are as they should be

 

[DJC1]

Putting 9 bettas in at once is way too many fish! No wonder your levels shot up. You have to be patient and add your fish gradually.

I'm totally new to this so would like confirmation for myself also, but isn't an advantage of doing a fishless cycle that you can fully stock straight away (just what I've seen on this forum), or is that not advised?

 

[Debbie_19]

Ok thanks. I was told that adding them all at once would be fine because the tank had been fishless cycled and i was raising my ammonia up to 8ppm every day so there would be more than enough bacteria to handle putting in the whole fish load at once, which i thought was one of the advantages of doing fishless cycles. And i was also told that for a female betta tank you have to add in all the females at once as if this is not done they would probably not except new females later. So this was my reasoning for adding them all at once.

 

[Bullrock74]

Putting 9 bettas in at once is way too many fish! No wonder your levels shot up. You have to be patient and add your fish gradually.

I'm totally new to this so would like confirmation for myself also, but isn't an advantage of doing a fishless cycle that you can fully stock straight away (just what I've seen on this forum), or is that not advised?

Yes. Fishless cycling allows the aquarist to fully stock the tank immediately. Of course, if someone was doing a fishless cycle by only adding the equivalent of 1 ppm ammonia insead of say 5 ppm, then that person should not stock their tank immediately, since their bacteria colony has only grown such that it can handle an ammonia load of 1 ppm.

 

[Debbie_19]

Yeah i agree with DJC1, i have read on here a number of time that it is advised to add your whole fish load at once as long as you are not overstocking, which i dont think i have done. If I did not add all them at once and only added a couple at a time this would have cause me more problems as the bacteria i had built up would start dying off as there would not be enough ammonia for them to eat and it would have been pointless me raising the ammonia up to such a high level while cycling and also it is advised to add at least 6 bettas due to their aggresion, so if i had only add 2 or 3 the chances are they would most likely be fighting badly or dead by now.

 

[CruX]

If you are fully fishless cycled then it should be no problem adding near enough the full compliment. The fact your nitrites had shot up it suggests that there was certainly enough bacteria to process the ammonia, but then some how not enough after that to process it later on, as if something had wiped some of it out. I would have expected to see ammonia first if your filter was incapable of supporting the bio load.

You also mention you left it a week, did you keep adding ammonia during this time or just actually leave it completely?

 

[Bullrock74]

Ok thanks. I was told that adding them all at once would be fine because the tank had been fishless cycled and i was raising my ammonia up to 8ppm every day so there would be more than enough bacteria to handle putting in the whole fish load at once, which i thought was one of the advantages of doing fishless cycles. And i was also told that for a female betta tank you have to add in all the females at once as if this is not done they would probably not except new females later. So this was my reasoning for adding them all at once.

If it is true that your bacteria colony could drop 8 ppm of ammonia to zero in say 12 hours, then it would seem you had a very substantial bacterial colony at that time. Something must have killed your bacteria colony if suddenly your ammonia is at 5 ppm. You didn't allow the bacteria colony to go for a while without adding ammonia, did you? I mean to say, that the ammonia should be added all the way up to the time the fish are added. For example, the ammonia is added Friday night, and Saturday morning, the fish are added.

 

[Debbie_19]

Ok thanks. I was told that adding them all at once would be fine because the tank had been fishless cycled and i was raising my ammonia up to 8ppm every day so there would be more than enough bacteria to handle putting in the whole fish load at once, which i thought was one of the advantages of doing fishless cycles. And i was also told that for a female betta tank you have to add in all the females at once as if this is not done they would probably not except new females later. So this was my reasoning for adding them all at once.

If it is true that your bacteria colony could drop 8 ppm of ammonia to zero in say 12 hours, then it would seem you had a very substantial bacterial colony at that time. Something must have killed your bacteria colony if suddenly your ammonia is at 5 ppm. You didn't allow the bacteria colony to go for a while without adding ammonia, did you? I mean to say, that the ammonia should be added all the way up to the time the fish are added. For example, the ammonia is added Friday night, and Saturday morning, the fish are added.

No i kept adding ammonia right up to the day i added the fish and the nitites shot up which would say that there was ammonia bacteria there at the time the fish were added. I just don't know whats happened. I am not sure what killed the bacteria off. Seems very strange indeed. I will just keep up the water changes every day and keep adding the amono lock until it settles down again. As i said the only thing i can think of is that the ph dropped alot which may have stalled it.

 

[CruX]

On the plus side, you definitely have bacteria in there so keep up with the water changes (I know it's hard work) and all will be well soon enough.

Edit > Don't forget that the ammo lock product will turn the ammonia to ammonium which is apparantly relitively safe, however your bacteria will still turn this into nitrite.

 

[Amerce]

To try to assist with the lowering of amonia and nitrates do a half water change, and give the filter medium a squeeze in the water you have taken out.

See what your reading is later that day or the next day.

But I really can't see how a fishless cycle is going to gear your tank for a full load of fish all at once, I never put more than 1 or 2 fish in at a time and very slowly build up the stock over a week or two.

You can't just create the right environment overnight you have to build up your bacteria culture on the sponges (even if you have used mature sponges), they need feeding like the fish.

The ammonia is going to shoot up, as you have put so many fish in at one time, they are all doing their toilet and part of that is the ammonia that they and we produce when we get rid of waste water.

Also try to reduce the amount of chemicals you are adding to the water, they will work for a short term but the filter needs to mature and colonize first. Use the dechlor and avoid the salt.

 

[CruX]

The way fishless cycling works so you can put your full compliment in at once is you cultivate more than enough bacteria on the filter sponges than needed for all your fish. Then when you add all the fish some of the bacteria will die off as there is not enough load to sustain the bacteria.

One thing that people forget is that if they don't load to near capacity after fishless cycling then their tank will have to some greater or lesser extent extent a spike depending on how many more fish you add until the bacteria reproduce enough to cope.

 

[Debbie_19]

To try to assist with the lowering of amonia and nitrates do a half water change, and give the filter medium a squeeze in the water you have taken out.

See what your reading is later that day or the next day.

But I really can't see how a fishless cycle is going to gear your tank for a full load of fish all at once, I never put more than 1 or 2 fish in at a time and very slowly build up the stock over a week or two.

You can't just create the right environment overnight you have to build up your bacteria culture on the sponges (even if you have used mature sponges), they need feeding like the fish.

The ammonia is going to shoot up, as you have put so many fish in at one time, they are all doing their toilet and part of that is the ammonia that they and we produce when we get rid of waste water.

Also try to reduce the amount of chemicals you are adding to the water, they will work for a short term but the filter needs to mature and colonize first. Use the dechlor and avoid the salt.

I was under the impression that the way fishless cycling geared u up to being able to add a full load of fish is because you are adding pure ammonia to the tank daily and adding much more than your fish would ever produce in a day, therefore when you add the fish there is more than enough bacteria on the sponge to be able to cope with the fish. And i didn't put mature filter sponge in and then add the fish the next day, i added the mature filter sponge in and then waited 4 weeks while adding ammonia nearly every day so there should have been more than enough bacteria to cope with putting the 9 fish in. I

 

[CruX]

To try to assist with the lowering of amonia and nitrates do a half water change, and give the filter medium a squeeze in the water you have taken out.

See what your reading is later that day or the next day.

But I really can't see how a fishless cycle is going to gear your tank for a full load of fish all at once, I never put more than 1 or 2 fish in at a time and very slowly build up the stock over a week or two.

You can't just create the right environment overnight you have to build up your bacteria culture on the sponges (even if you have used mature sponges), they need feeding like the fish.

The ammonia is going to shoot up, as you have put so many fish in at one time, they are all doing their toilet and part of that is the ammonia that they and we produce when we get rid of waste water.

Also try to reduce the amount of chemicals you are adding to the water, they will work for a short term but the filter needs to mature and colonize first. Use the dechlor and avoid the salt.

I was under the impression that the way fishless cycling geared u up to being able to add a full load of fish is because you are adding pure ammonia to the tank daily and adding much more than your fish would ever produce in a day, therefore when you add the fish there is more than enough bacteria on the sponge to be able to cope with the fish. And i didn't put mature filter sponge in and then add the fish the next day, i added the mature filter sponge in and then waited 4 weeks while adding ammonia nearly every day so there should have been more than enough bacteria to cope with putting the 9 fish in. I

Thats the way I understand it, and the tanks I have cycled with fishless cycling have had most if not all the fish added at once with no loss. I have to add I have never cycled my own tanks this way as my first tanks came cycled and I used the filters from these when we bought our new one and put both loads of fish in the new tank then added slowly. However all the tanks I have cycled for other people I have used this method with a kickstart from my own filter and added ammonia, once the cycle has completed then I have always done a large water change then added most if not all the fish immediately with ZERO loss.