ranting a little

[vantgE]

I took out all the fish in my 90 gallon but three, for a week, then I add in 11, Johanni takes over half the fricken tank literally, so I take him out he is in another tank with a female lombardoi, he's dominant but they get along. Add him in today after nearly three weeks the johanni retakes his old half of the tank,
Then my female Lombardoi who is kinda a bit ugly the male never bred with her and such her tail got bitten off so she was moved put back into the tank after four weeks sitting at the top like she used to fins all against her body looking scared, not one fish haas touched her she is over four times as big as some of the other ones, and about twice as big as most, kicked some ass on a new fish in the other tank, and just goes back to being fricken scared, plus the male still ignores her, what the hell,

There are now 28 fish in my 90 gallon hopefully that is overstocked enough? I've spent about 400 dollars in fish so far, the first setup ran about 200 and most fish didn'y work out three deaths and most returned, outr of seven johanni I got seven males, and out of seven elongatus I got 1 or 2 females. Then I had to restock with larger mor expensive fish

 

[freddyk]

Yeah, that's why I avoid these terror species. As they mature we find it can easily become an endless game of controlling the dominant fish.

 

[Boxcar Muzzdogg]

So what are these other fish you have in the 90 gallon with the johannii? bHalf of a 90 gal is a pretty large territory for a johannii. Without knowing what other fish you have we won't be able to find a solution but my guess as of now would be that theres not enough caves.

If you have mbuna and non-mbuna malawi cichlids in the same tank, then this is the problem. These two groups can not really co exist in the same tank. You must have one group or the other.

Lately I've been doing a lot of reading about mbunas but just the other day I read a very informative and interesting article in AFM. According to the article an mbuna tank should be stocked with 20-24 inches of fish (not including tails) per square foot of bottom area which, according to the article, is what you would find in the wild. Mbuna territories are small and scarce and in the wild many do not even get a territory because they are all taken.

I think your troubles would be greatly reduced if you would follow this stocking rule and most deffinitley stick with either mbunas or non-mbuna malawis, but not both.

 

[fish_r_great]

You want to overstock a mbuna tank because you don't want them to be able to have territories so they don't fight as much. Thats why he wanted to overstock.

 

[freddyk]

He's got 28 fish in a 48x18 - it's plenty.

 

[keane]

vantgE,

Any chance you can update your sig so we can see what fish you have in your 90 now??

I used to have problems with my Johannii when I first started with Malawi's. Always trying to dominate the tank. I then added three more Johannii and four Estherae (another aggressive fish) and within a day the "dominant" Johannii had really calmed down.

Of course, there is still the odd bicker here and there but all appears well now and both my Johanni's and my Estherae's have bred and spawned!

Perhaps your current stock are less aggressive and allow the Johannii to be a bully. Maybe if you add some fish of a more aggressive nature, that wont put up with the Johannii's sh*t, you may solve your problem.

just a thought.

steve.

 

[mbhw]

Try a ratio of one male per 3-4 females of each species, and you will have better success. The tank is overstocked which works for some folks, but I find 2-3 species groupings do better in a small tank like that. (Yes, you can get away with the 90 gallon, but I find aggressive mbuna species do better in 6 foot tanks)

 

[Boxcar Muzzdogg]

I don't even know what vantge has in there. How can we say its overstocked? If anything its understocked.

 

[mbhw]

28 fish in a 90 gallon is a lot. The old 1" per gallon rule is faulty reasoning and really doesn't work. Most Mbuna get an easy 5-6" when fully grown, 28 5-6" fish will be greatly overtaxing that environment without extreme tank upkeep. I never said it couldn't work, I feel it's overstocked. However, it's his tank, he can do what he wants. I'm yet to see a tank of healthy, actively breeding fish in a tank that overstocked. A 90 gallon would really be perfect for 3, maybe 4 different species in a ratio of 1m/3f. I hope it works for him.

 

[Boxcar Muzzdogg]

But it depends on what we're talking about when we say overstocked. If your saying its overstocked because the amount of waste created is too great for the amount of space then that may be correct but can be remedied with frequent maintenance.

If we are talking about free swimming space then the tank is not overstocked. According to the article in AFM mbunas are best kept at 20-24 inches of fish per 1 square foot of bottom area, which is how thick they are in the wild. This is about 4-5 cichlids per square foot of bottom area. If we go by this then the tank is slightly understacked.

Also, vantge never told us what kind of fish are in his 90 gal. Mbunas should not be kept with non-mbuna malawi cichlids.

 

[vantgE]

I tried the grouping things and like I said ended up being a veryexpensive mistake so I restocked with single species mostly

I'm not sure if this is a great setup, it isn't something I would have recomended on paper but so far it's working but I bought pretty much whatever I could I was aiming for 30 fish and my selection was a little limited

8-Labidochromis Caeruleus
4-Maylandia Lombardoi 1/3
5-Pseudotropheus Acie 1/4
1-Melanchromis Johanni
1-Maylandia Caillanous
1-Pseudotropheus Demasoni
1-Pseudotropheus Elongatus
1-Pseudotropheus Socofoli (albino)
1-Pseudotropheus Polit
1-Cynatilipia Afra
1-Labeotropheus Fuelleborni
1-Pseudotropheus Daktari
1-Maylandia Greshakei
1-Maylandia Esthare

 

[mbhw]

Hey Boxcar - I'm responding to these posts based on experience that has worked for me, I've kept Africans for 20+ years and used to work in an aquarium for years as a teen through my early twenties. I know a lot, but obviously not everything, like some crazies on the net do! So, at least you know where my thought process comes from.

1) Most people don't do the required tank maintainance. That's a fact, so I hesitate to see someone do "controlled overstocking." I used to do tank maintainance for a living, and I can tell you once the honeymoon is over most people let the tank sort itself out and end up with a few big males who are constantly fighting.

2) Overstocking in aquariums can also lead to stressed fish which in turn break down through disease.

3) If the ratio of males to females is not good, there is more fighting than normal. Numerous males will fight over any available females and wreak havoc if not stocked in limited numbers in the home aquarium. Please bear in mind that in a closed environment, less dominant fish can't swim away, they are harrassed until death.

4) Certain mbuna will not get along too well. Fish like Zebras, Aratus, Johanni, Bumblebee, Lombardi, and certain others are noted as being terrors. I agree, they don't mix well with others.

5) Labidochromis species like labs and hongis, also Rusties & Acei are not too bad, and I have had tanks with other types of Africans in with them no problems. I think it depends again on your fishes aggressiveness, and what you are trying to mix in.

Like I said, that would be a perfect tank for a few different species in the proper numbers without the maintainance issue, and would still have a good amount of color and variety. With good ratios, you can prevent cross-breeding and replenish your fish as old age hits, you have new ones through breeding! Plus, if they breed enough you can cull them for some credit usually at most LFS. I wish vantagE luck with his/her tank, but it seems like it wasn't planned well and might not work. However, I've seen stranger! All the best - mbhw

 

[vantgE]

I do weekly minimum 50% watter changes and you really need to understand that something like this is impossible to plan, I went to every store in the city and bought everything that I thought was compatible with my remaining four inch fish johanni, lombardoi, Caeruleus, and elongatus. Then I went again and bought nothing, and then to gett my tank fuller to overstock I went out again being alot less lenient and picked up 12 more fish.

My first tank was well planned followed all the rules and didn't work out if your intrested this was how it was suposed to be setup *note I already had one male lombardoi and one caeruleus
Four lombardoi
Four elongatus
Four johanni
Four caeruleus
and Four Petricola
1/3 ratio for each cichlids that tank should work out perfect but...
I ended up with
2:2 kennyi m:f ratio
3:1 elongatus m:f ratio
4:0 johani m:f ratio
and one caeruleus couldn't find others any at the ideal size to be added
I bought seven of each fish originally and returned extra males, this tank was a disaster so I mostly gave up on groups

I checked out baldrangers idea, and there isn't much in the stores besides some bigass auratus which wouldn't work because it's a bigass auratus

 

[mbhw]

Sorry you couldn't get the ratios you wanted. I know how much of a pain in the butt that some Africans can be, that's why I made the suggestions, I guess you were growing them out before starting with adults? Good luck with the tank.

 

[vantgE]

yep,
thanks mbhw