Ragged fins

[seangee]

Spotted this today on several of my glowlight tetras. They were all normal last night and nothing else in the tank is affected. Ammonia, nitite and nitrate all read 0 and my last 75% water change was on Sunday.

I recently added some fish (cardinals, pencilfish and peppered cories) after a 10 day quarantine. None of these fish show any symptoms. The fins appear frayed rather than torn or nipped and are tipped with white although this does not appear to be fluffy or raised.

75% water change in progress

Oh and no unusual beahviour or other symptoms.

 

[Byron]

I would suggest fin nipping is the cause. So the question is, which species of pencilfish were added? Some of these will seriously nip fins of fish that enter the pencil's territory, and some don't even need that situation to go after other species.

 

[seangee]

Nannostomus marginatus. I already had 11 and wanted to increase their numbers so I bought all 7 that my LFS had in stock.

Never seen any evidence of it - but it has only just started. The pencilfish mostly stay at the top in the roots of the frogbit , and the tetras rarely go that high.

Is this likely to require intervention? I am going on holiday in a couple of weeks so need to set up alternative accomodation if this is the case

 

[seangee]

Caught the culprits red handed! The sids have started spawning.

Hospital / breeding tank filled with water and ready to accept new inhabitants. Tomorrow's challenge will be to catch the little beggars, and to find a suitable permanent home for them. I love watching their antics but now that they have matured I guess its got to be a single species tank. And I won't be able to spend too much time watching them in their temporary new home of an opaque plastic tub.

 

[FishGuest5123]

That's One thing about aquatics. What Was good yesterday is disaster today. Been there.

 

[Byron]

N. marginatus wold be unlikely fin nippers. I was recalling you had/acquired N. trifasciatus and they definitely do fin nip; I've moved these fellows twice to avoid this, they are now in with the N. beckfordi (they also fin nip fish near the surface) and the cories are below (45 of them) so the pencils can duke it out all they like.

What are "sids?" You didn't mention other fish previously.

 

[seangee]

N. marginatus wold be unlikely fin nippers. I was recalling you had/acquired N. trifasciatus and they definitely do fin nip; I've moved these fellows twice to avoid this, they are now in with the N. beckfordi (they also fin nip fish near the surface) and the cories are below (45 of them) so the pencils can duke it out all they like.

What are "sids?" You didn't mention other fish previously.

Ambastaia sidthimunki - dwarf chain loach. Always been peaceful but they had a mad 15 minutes tonight where they were hell bent on chasing everything in sight. I had been contemplating moving them out anyway as they are far more boisterous than everything else in the tank - seems my hand is now forced.

I had N. marginatus all along, the original group I had were mis-sold as N. trifasciatus when I bought them, hence my earlier confusion.

 

[Byron]

Ambastaia sidthimunki - dwarf chain loach. Always been peaceful but they had a mad 15 minutes tonight where they were hell bent on chasing everything in sight. I had been contemplating moving them out anyway as they are far more boisterous than everything else in the tank - seems my hand is now forced.

I had N. marginatus all along, the original group I had were mis-sold as N. trifasciatus when I bought them, hence my earlier confusion.

Interesting. It is generally said that this loach can get a bit boisterous and may not work with sedate fish. I've had a group of five for 8 or maybe 9 years now. Initially I had them on their own with upper rasboras, then I moved them into the 90g with my five Botia kubotai since they do occur in the same habitat together; I monitored them closely, but the two species kept their own hierarchies and I never saw any cross-species interaction. They were together for 4, maybe 5 years, until I gave the B. kubotai away this past April in preparation for my move. This species really needs a 4-foot by 18-inch tank like the 90g, and it would have been cruel to force them into a 3-foot which was the largest tank I brought with me. I gave the aquarist the tank and several chunks of the wood, along with the loaches, and they are doing well now. I'd had these for as long as the dwarfs, so I thought the less upheaval the better.

 

[seangee]

Well I'm glad that's all over. Managed to find a 20G this morning. Would really have preferred a 20 long but it was an emergency. By the time the sids were caught everyone (especially me) was so stressed I decided not to use the bare tank as an opportunity for a thorough substrate clean and just put everything back. I think it was time for them to move on - some of the glowlights looked a bit worse for wear, thankfully no serious damage or fatalaties.

Got a good deal on a Marina LUX kit. It has one of those silly cartridge filters, and a recommendation to change the cartridges monthly. Filter worked for about 2 minutes before expiring , but I have moved a sponge filter across from the community tank and filled the top with frogbit - so touch wood no cycling issues with just the 6 fish in there.

Course now I have an extra tank I'll soon be looking for suitable tanks mates, but I may just give them a bowl of marbles and a couple of spawning mops .

Strange thing is I have been keeping a close eye on this group knowing they could turn - but I always assumed that if they did the corys would be the target. In my mind I was going to move the corys and glowlights together as they never used to go near to each other and I liked the idea of two tanks each with a single tetra species.

 

[seangee]

Arghhh. Not going to be quite the plain sailing I hoped.
I woke up this morning to an ammonia reading of 0.25. I haven't fed them yet since the move. Hopefully the sponge filter is working but doesn't have quiet enough bacteria for the bioload as an "only filter". Just in case, after this morning's water change, I have moved another sponge filter in powered by a second air pump - this pump has twice the capacity of the first one. These sponges were acting as the pre-filter for my canister, so they used to get a much higher flowrate (and more muck) so hopefully they are better pre-loaded with bacteria.

Mild panic as I am going on holiday next week and loaches are particularly sensitive. Am I right in thinking I should put the lights on for longer as plants only use ammonia while actively photo-synthesizing?

 

[FishGuest5123]

It will all work out. @Byron is it true about the lights and photosynthesis?

 

[Byron]

It will all work out. @Byron is it true about the lights and photosynthesis?

I would answer this question by saying not to worry about it. One might logically assume that since plants take up nutrients during photosynthesis, I have never had any knowledgeable sources mention this as an issue. I also spotted something recently that said the opposite, that ammonia can still be taken up outside photosynthesis. Don't ask me where I saw this, my memory recall is not what it once was (if it ever was, lol). But the fact that no sources consider this an issue, neither would I. I think the oxygen/CO2 balance during night in a fairly well planted tank is far more of a concern.

This reading of 0.25 ammonia turns up in several threads, and never with explanation as to why. I don't even bother testing these things, as with my floating plants I have had no issues for decades and I am not going to make something out of nothing. Colin once suggested that chloramine in the source water could cause this, and (again if memory serves me) not to worry about it at such low levels.

Back to the light issue...do not change the light schedule. This affects fish as well as plants, negatively. Fish are highly sensitive to light. Do a couple major water changes, including one the day prior to leaving, do not feed much or at all while away unless you have a knowledgeable aquarist to look after things who would know what to do in an issue, i.e., a water change. If your floating plants are growing, all will be well for a week and even two.

 

[seangee]

To be fair "panic" was an over statement. I was surprised to get a reading though. It definitely came from the tank as the water is RO. I did have occasion to test another tank earlier in the week so I do know that the test usually reads 0.

I will of course continue testing, but I am not expecting any issues.

 

[seangee]

Another 14 hours and the test is inconclusive. Its not 0 but its also not 0.25. So I have given them a couple of their favourite shrimp pellets and not changed their water tonight. That way I'll know for sure by tomorrow morning.

 

[seangee]

24 hours later and all clear with no water changes. Well predominantly yellow on the API test. I resisted the urge to test last night and fed as usual in the early evening. Then just before lights out I dropped a veggie round into the tank. Test was unchanged this morning with just a hint of green. Based on several other threads going on I am accepting this as the norm and won't test for another 48 hours.

On a separate note watching the little monkeys without the distraction of other fish is fascinating. I can now confirm that I have 4 females and 2 males and also know which is the dominant one - not really surprising she's the biggest. I'm not sure if its down to the fact that the hierarchy is well established but the dominance struggle after the move was over a lot quicker than it used to be when I re-arranged furniture in the community tank several months ago.

Boy - these guys play rough