Pythons

[shrimply]

Ok so Really want to use one of these but have two BIG snags.

The first one is the septic tank can fish water go into these I was told not as it messes up the bacteria or something similar.

Second is the hot water I have always used boiling water when filling my tanks. Is this needed. We have a combi boiler i.e no hot water tank so the water is more or less heated as we use it. I don't know if this makes a difference.

Thanks guys.

 

[morgan]

Hi, we have a septic tank too (had to rod the pipes tonight,blockage ). On our tank there is a valve on top which if there is a large quantity of water coming down (from washing machine etc) it goes straight to the soakaway and so does not fill up the tank. I wouldn't think fish water would interfere with the working of the tank but I do not know that for sure. (I know washing powder clogs the pipes up). As to the hot water, it is fine from a combi boiler as it heats it instantly. The problem is in older houses (like mine) where the water for the hot water sits in a holding tank and these are not normally very clean e.g. you wouldn't want to clean your teeth in the water (we use the cold tap.) HTH.

 

[Underwurlde]

Using boiled water is not a good idea anywway...

Andy

 

[shrimply]

Thanks. Ok so disposing of the water isn't a problem( up till now it has just got tipped in to the field. Nor is the tap water. Brilliant cheers guys.

Can I ask why boiling water is no good I have been using it for about 3 years so that could be a long term mistake I shouldn't have made,lol

 

[R1ch13]

Is the when you say boiling do you mean outt of a kettle or right from the tap ?

If so is it not bad because of all the crap it contains ?

The cold water is clean and drinkable etc etc

But boiling isnt ! Because if it was people would just be making cups of tea with the boiling tap water lol !

Must contain bad things that can harm the fish i guess !

Oh well

Richie

 

[Underwurlde]

I would say *always* use water from the COLD water tap. As long as the overall temperature of the tank does not drop by more than 3°C then that's fine. I'd say up to 40%to 50% water changes are therefore OK.

Boiled water problems are:
Using boiled water to raise the temperature of cooler water with fish: I remember reading somewhere that it can give fish problems much akin to divers who come up to the surface too quickly and get the bends.

Boiled water has little oxygen in it.

Boiled water has no buffering capacity as the calcium which forms the buffers has been 'boiled' out. Over time it could lead to low KH levels in the tank and eventual pH crash.

Water from the hot water tap
Again, not good news, espcially if you have shrimp:
The hot water has increased levels of copper, lead and possibly other heavy metals toxic to shrimp. Due to certain chemicals added to the hot water, the copper pipes corrode more easily and release copper directly into the water. Other chemicals are also added to the boiler which, helped by the temperature of the water, release heavy metals into the water. Whereas fish will be fine (in the short term anyway), such chemicals (espcially copper) are bad news for shrimp.

Andy

 

[shrimply]

Ok well my cold water is ice cold pretty much all year round so what do I do hot tap water( I have no shrimp) or boiling water out the kettle.

So basically which is the lesser of the two evils. Oh by the way my water treatment says it gets rid of heavy metals will this help?

 

[shrimply]

Also to add one of my tanks has got Cichlids in it so a drop in pH is not a good idea. ANd the water treatment I us is King British safe gaurd

 

[LisaLQ]

I have to say that if I did a 50% water change in my tank from the cold tap, the temp would drop more than 3 degrees. Mine dropped from 80 to 71F when I did a 30% change the other day. Sadly I cant use hot tap water as we have a holding tank (something to do with copper in the water I think?), and using a kettle would a. take hours and b. use a shedload of electricity as my tank is 180g.

My fish cope ok, although Wilf the BN got a bit of a temperature shock the other week when it was really cold here.

Incidentally, I've been looking into getting a python, but they cost £80 - when there's another product out there virtually identical, that only costs £40 Lee's Ultimate Gravel vac, I think it's called - you can find it on Ebay.

Just out of interest, to those that have either brand, do you have to leave the tap/faucet on the whole time it's syphoning, or just to get the syphon started? I'm on a water meter so would rather not waste all that water if you have to leave it on the whole time...

 

[Underwurlde]

The answer is to do small incremental water changes and let your heater in the tank 'do its stuff'.

You can make your own python using hose pipe & a 'T' connector.

You use the flow from the tap to get the syphon started. Once water is flowing:
IF your tank is above the level of your sink, then you can turn the tap off & save water.
IF your tank is below the level of your sink, then you have to keep the tap on.

Water does not travel up hill.

Andy

 

[LisaLQ]

I already do 2-3 30% water changes a week, so doing smaller ones would mean doing them daily - something that's pretty impossible in my situation. Thanks for the other suggestions though

 

[Underwurlde]

Can I ask, why so many LisaQ? I only do a once a week 50%....

Andy

 

[shrimply]

Well tahnks but I don't have time to do a whole load of seperate water changes. I have been reading some old posts and almost all of them confirm that with a combi boiler hot tap water is safe to use so I will probably start doing this from now on.

Now of to B&Q to get some bits to build my python

 

[Bignose]

I would say *always* use water from the COLD water tap. As long as the overall temperature of the tank does not drop by more than 3°C then that's fine. I'd say up to 40%to 50% water changes are therefore OK.

Boiled water problems are:
Using boiled water to raise the temperature of cooler water with fish: I remember reading somewhere that it can give fish problems much akin to divers who come up to the surface too quickly and get the bends.

Don't agree with that one. The primary reason boiled water is bad is your second point below, there is usually significantly less oxygen in boiled water than normal tap water. Now, if you are only chaning 5-10% it is probably not an issue, but more than that and I wouldn't chance it. The fishy-bends come from using water that is too cold and it warmed up too quickly in the tank. Then gas bubbles may form as the warmed water cannot hold as much gas as the cooler water. The real danger here is a gas bubble forming on the fish's gills. This is similar to the bubbles that form during decompression sickness a.k.a. the bends. Though, it is a rather poor analogy as this is a temperature issue with bubbles outside the fish's body and decompression sickness is a pressure issue with bubbles inside the body.

Boiled water has little oxygen in it.

I agree with this, as I said above.

Boiled water has no buffering capacity as the calcium which forms the buffers has been 'boiled' out. Over time it could lead to low KH levels in the tank and eventual pH crash.

This one I strongly disagree with. If anything, the remaining water has more calcium in it, since what you boil off is almost 100% pure water. Definitely what gets boiled off has far, far less minerals than the tap water. I definitely have quite a calcium layer on the inside of my kettle. Unless you were capturing the steam and re-condensing it... that water would have little to no buffering capability.


Just one thing that I'd like to add. A temperature change of a few degrees really is ok for the fish. Many times it triggers other interesting behavior. My cory catfish start a breeding event sometimes after I use some cold water in their tank.

It is also important to note that your fish cannot get ich or any other disease just from a temperature change. A large temperature change can lower their immune systems, and if the tank has a disease in it -- maybe at a non-symptomatic level -- the disease can then take hold, almost like it appeared out of nowhere. But, the disease HAD to be in the tank, it cannot just spontaneously appear because of the cold.

 

[Underwurlde]

Hmmm, perhaps my conception of GH (General Hardness) and KH (Temporary Hardness) is wrong then. I though that GH is permenant (remains in solution after boiling) and that KH can be removed by boiling (lime scale in kettles) - hence the two different types. If the calcium has depositied itself on the inside of the kettle then not as much remains in the boiled water for buffering?

We live and learn,

Andy