Puffer Problem

[Blake]

Hello all,
I have run into an interesting problem that has me stumped. I have a tank with some bumblebee gobies, mollys, a dragon goby (most likely soon to be moved to another tank). Just recently I've started working towards adding puffers to the tank (my initial purpose for this tank).

The problem I am running into is this. The first puffer I picked up was one figure 8. Things went well for the first couple of days, only to wake up on the third day or so to find that the puffer had disappeared. No evidence that the puffer had jumped out of the tank, no dead fish, no dead animals from trying to eat the puffer, nothing. After a couple weeks I headed down to the the lfs here, on his advice I picked up some GSPs since I wanted more than one and they said that F8s are more solitary and GSPs like to school, and I wanted something that would deal with the growing molly population a little more than the Figure 8 would. I put them in the tank last night, no problems appeared. This morning when I looked at the tank, I was missing one puffer. Again, no evidence inside or outside the tank.

Anyone have a clue? I know that puffers are poisonus, so shouldn't any animal that would eat the puffer die from the poison? Also, other than puffers, I haven't noticed any other fish in this tank dissappear.

Thanks,
-Blake

 

[ac106]

Far from an expect and Nmonks will have much better info but i would consider the following

1) How big is this tank? Dragon Gobies get pretty big, 12"+ plus and GSPs get to be 6" and aggressive. A "school" of GSPs is going to require a HUGE tank

2) The puffers are probably going to eat the Bumble Bees at some point. Even if they dont GSPs require a much higher salitity then BBG can stand

3) Is it possible the puffers got sucked into your filter? Happened to me, afraid to admit. I found out in time and he was fine. Otherwise could they be stuck in cave or something? How big is the Dragon, I doubt he would eat 2 whole but I suppose is conceivable.

4) Puffers shouldn’t be fed fish. Nmonks can tell you more, but it's not their natural diet and unhealthy. I am not sure that feeding them Mollies is a good idea.

 

[chris_1127]

if the numbers of molly fry in the tank are a problem, then id think its highly unlikely that you have a voracious predator in your tank thats eating your puffers. also re puffer toxicity, i'm sure that ive read somewhere that the tetraodoxin production is somehow related to environmental conditions in their natural habitat, and so captive fish dont actually produce the toxin.

i wouldnt have thought that the bumblebees are at much risk from the puffers tbh - never had any problems so far with mixing the two and have read on here that a lot of others have had similar experience.

Out of interest what are your nitrate levels like? if they gradually raise over a period of time, fish living in the environment might be more tolerant than a puffer you have just bought from a shop, which may be used to lover levels and puffers do seem to be quite sensetive to nitrates. is there any way it could have jumped and ended up behind or under the stand or anything?

if you want molly fry control, maybe get some knight gobies. they will make short work of the fry, believe me.

 

[Blake]

chris_1127:
My thoughts exactly on any predator, it didn't make sense that mollys would survive but not puffers.

Thanks for the info on the knight gobies, I'll look into that, I'm growing to enjoy gobies quite a bit.

I've checked fairly extensively behind my tank and could see nothing. But, if the puffers don't actually produce the toxin in captivity, then it may have been able to escape the tank, and gotten eaten up by an animal, although still a puzzlement as to how.

I'll take a look at the nitrate levels in my tank again to make sure, although, if that was the case, I find it strange that I didn't see any carcass.

ac106:
I'm not really schooling the puffers, that's just what the guy at the lfs store said. I only have two (now).

I'm aware that the GSP's will go full salt as they grow, which will be fine because the Dragon Goby will have to as well, so I'll have to make some changes in a little while.

I doubt he got stuck in the filter, there's a cap on the end with slits that prevents bigger fish from being sucked up into it. The dragon isn't that big yet, probably six inches.

I'm not feeding the GSP's mollys, they were there originally when I was getting the tank started. Now they kindof act as a dither fish and somthing for the GSP's to take their aggression out on. Their food is frozen mysis shrip, blood worms, etc. Along with some snails.

Thanks,
-Blake

 

[nmonks]

Hello all --

I'm not an expert on green spotted puffers... I've not kept them, and rely on what I've heard from others.

GSPs shouldn't be fed live fish. There are fish eating puffers, but GSPs aren't among them. GSPs prefer (i.e., need) invertebrate prey, certainly snails, but also unshelled prawns, clam and mussel meat, and so on. Feeding a fish the wrong sort of food leads to problems, eventually; just as it does with us.

Puffers can jump out of tanks. Hard to imagine, but since finding my South American puffer swimming inside an open-topped filter next to my tank, I've had to accept this to be the case and rearrange things accordingly.

Bumblebee gobies don't want a salinity above 1.010, and ideally less; likewise, knight gobies cannot be kept at anything 1.010 or higher. The dragon goby will be fine in even fully marine conditions, as will the mollies. Clay gobies (Dormitator lebretonis) is a good, euryhaline sleeper that will eat small fishes. They are fun in groups because they squabble in a harmless manner, and unusually for a goby mostly swim in midwater.

Dragon gobies might, just, eat a dead puffer but I think it unlikely. While they have huge mouths, they are really filter feeders / sand sifters and only eat small fish if absolutely starving.

chris_1127 is correct about the puffer toxin, Tetradotoxin. It is only synthesised by fishes living in the wild because they need to eat foods containing the bacteria that make the toxin. Not all puffers are poisonous, by the way, only some.

If you want to try again with puffers, I'd certainly do a fair old water change to get the nitrates nice and low, and then adapt the puffer as gently as possible to the salinity of your tank. Certainly take an hour for the process, putting the puffer into a large bucket and adding some aquarium water every 10-15 minutes. Also check aeration: puffers are very sensitive to low oxygen concentrations.

Puffers aren't especially difficult to keep, so your experiences might simply be bad luck.

Cheers,

Neale

 

[Blake]

nmonks: Thanks for the advice.

I'm pleased, and more than a little embarrased/ashamed, to say I figured out what happened to the puffers.

I have a powerhead in my tank to help circulate. I made the mistake of putting a powerhead in that didn't have any type of cover over the intake. Apparently, the puffer isn't a strong enough swimmer to stand up against the current of the intake valve and got sucked into the powerhead. Needless to say, the powerhead was immediately replaced with one that had a cover over the intake.

Thanks again for all the information, I'll keep it in mind.

-Blake