Promoting Planted Aquariums

[OohFeeshy]

.....a lot of the newer tank aquascapes seem to me like they're trying to look more terrestrial than aquatic.

That's one of the concepts behind Takashi Amano's Nature Aquarium concept.

Ah, right, didn't realsie that. From other things I have read (mainly people's reviews about how natural Amano aquascapes look) I assumed they meant natural as in aquatic natural. But still, beautiful as they are, I'm not a fan of trying to make a tank, especially one where you put fish in, look like it's not underwater. Just seems a bit odd to me.

One of the main reasons I starting writing for fishkeeping magazines in the UK is so that the planted hobby can be better represented and brought up to date.

Indeed, even though the writers are some of the best in the country when it comes to fishkeeping, a lot seem not to be in touch with what is considered the 'right' thing to do now. Sometimes it can be quite funny (like the writers reaction to EI and growing riccia underwater).

The marine hobby is very well supported and there are at least two or three lengthy, detailed articles in every issue. We are lucky to see one decent planted article. Rather than moan that this representation appears a little off-balance

I agree, although from a different view The freshwater articles seem to mostly be about cichlids, which I don't keep, the equiptment articles are all in some way adverts, the marine articles are always about huge reef tanks. I'm sure people from most areas of fishkeeping will think it's lacking in their area.

How come it's ok to spend big money for SW lights and not FW planted tank? If planted tanks is what you're really into, then why the heck not? It's all about personal tastes.

Which I was expressing. The question posed was 'If not, why not?', which I answered. I was writing reasons that perhaps people hadn't thought of, taste does enter into it, yes, but it also seems that there are as many practical reasons not to have a tank planted thusly as there is to have one.


Just to clear things up, I'm not against planted tanks, I'm just not a fan of keeping them myself. I also agree that they are absolutely stunning, although the whole land/water crossover does funny things to my thinking... Same sort of feelings I get when I see fish swimming around in roman ruins. Planted tanks, great, but give me a natural looking, no maintenence jungle over those tanks anyday

 

[dizzied]

Here's my thing about planted tanks. Almost all of them look like I just ate salad and vomitted it back out into a tank.


Though I could say the same for you reef guys too, but replace salad with skittles.

 

[George Farmer]

Here's my thing about planted tanks. Almost all of them look like I just ate salad and vomitted it back out into a tank.


Though I could say the same for you reef guys too, but replace salad with skittles.

Comical genius.

Ironic how you make fun out of the planted (and reef) hobby, yet you ask for some Java moss donations in a previous thread.

OohFeeshy - Like we know, each to their own. I'll stick with my "high-tech rubbish, incredibly limited fish selection and weird aquascapes", you stick to your "no maintenance jungles". Everyone's a winner!

 

[craynerd]

quote 'All these aquascapes were created by fellow forum members'

does Justin law use this forum?

lol, he posted them but hardly a contributor to the forum! YOU know out of ANYONE in this forum i`m all for CAU but to say he is fellow forum member!! lol

Lets be more honest and give more respect to some of our REGULAR posters, Jen, Jimboo, RYO, paulioo, Simon ...... who have created fabulous tanks!

This would be a more accurate representation as to the work TFF members have done:

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=111385


WOOT to the true TFF members who have inspired me and others alike!!

 

[Gankutsuou]

just my thinking....

But aren't 16 cardinal tetra a bit much to be put in an 8 gallon?
Combine with the need for c02 to pump in, giving less oxygen?

It just kinda gives false hopes of tanks imo.

 

[George Farmer]

quote 'All these aquascapes were created by fellow forum members'

does Justin law use this forum?

lol, he posted them but hardly a contributor to the forum! YOU know out of ANYONE in this forum i`m all for CAU but to say he is fellow forum member!! lol

Lets be more honest and give more respect to some of our REGULAR posters, Jen, Jimboo, RYO, paulioo, Simon ...... who have created fabulous tanks!

This would be a more accurate representation as to the work TFF members have done:

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=111385


WOOT to the true TFF members who have inspired me and others alike!!

I understand your point but my intention was not to necessarily advertise TFF forum members. The intention was to show some very nice high-tech planted tanks that happened to be created by fellow forum members.

This small selection was only chosen because I had decent full-frontal hi-res shots provided by the creators that were easy to work with and provided a nice sample of what can be acheived.

My highest respect goes out to our "true" regulars and they should already know this through our many interactions on this forum over the years.

My apologies if I have offended anyone. I hope YOU understand Chris.

But aren't 16 cardinal tetra a bit much to be put in an 8 gallon?
Combine with the need for c02 to pump in, giving less oxygen?

16 in 8 US gal. is fine. Small fish generally create less waste per inch. The plants in a heavily planted, high growth tank will provide more than enough oxygen.

 

[craynerd]

I understand your point but my intention was not to necessarily advertise TFF forum members. The intention was to show some very nice high-tech planted tanks that happened to be created by fellow forum members.

Ohhh i see, i think as someone else mentioned at the start of the post, it wasn`t how i took it. My fault, sorry. I thought you were saying they were TFF regulars tanks...

My apologies if I have offended anyone. I hope YOU understand Chris.

Anyway, no point in debating, there are lots of images in the members planted tanks link i posted.

Regards

Chris

LOL: EDITED a few times.....

 

[George Farmer]

Chris,

I never said these were regular's tanks, just "fellow forum members". I actually didn't mention TFF in this context because one of the aquascapers isn't a member on here. My apologies for being apparently misleading, this was not my intention.

As I said, my intention was and is to boost this wonderful hobby. My emphasis on "YOU" was because I thought you understood this more than most.

edited too! I think we understand each other.

 

[Neal]

Eh? I don't get this. GF has taken time to show some lovely works of art, and some people are throwing them back in his face?
Thanks George for showing these tanks, these tanks have inspired me along the way, and i'm finally pleased with something i've created, but it's still not a patch on those tanks!

Neal

 

[tear-scar]

The first time I saw a large planted aquarium was at a pet-store in Kahala. It was a fairly small LFs, and realistically, the tank was nothing special by international competition standards, and looking back at it now, I can see lots of flaws.

But, at the time, all I could do was gawk. It felt like I had entered another world, and my mind was consumer completely by the green fields dappled by flowers, soaring cliffs sparkling with moss, and bubbling stems red and green. Everywhere too, there were all sorts of colorful fish-- guppies, rams, zebra plecs and otos-- but the main thing to me is that these fish seemed more alive and vivid than any fish I had ever seen before in my life. Even the snails in the tank seemed to be pulsing with life.

Until that time, I had always been an artist/painter, but at that moment I realized that I had been touched like no painting had ever touched me. I thought to myself, "This is art, this is beauty, this is . . . This is what I must do."

It's been 3 years since that day, and ever since I've worked hard and eventually set my resolve to hold the dream of being a professional aquarium designer, and in large I stopped posting at TFF because at the time I felt like I wasn't getting what I needed. I came back and posted at the request of my friend, george, gf225 who owns one of the aquariums displayed at the start of this thread.


As an aquascaper, I know that the ultimate beauty is nature's, and that everything in it pulses with beauty. That is why I have deep respect for the forumers on all communities like this who have such a love for small creatures-- for even the largest Puffer or Cichlid is, compared to us, a very small creature.

However, for my self, the fresh water planted tank is the only medium for me-- keeping fish is a fine thing to do, but it only becomes art when it becomes a journey seeking to create beauty. As for fresh v. salt, I personally see salt as a very limited medium.

We all love coral reefs, or mangrove forests, but humans can only be visitors there-- we can never stay, we are aliens. Only the freshwater tank, is capable of touching the human spirit.

Soaring mountains, coursing rivers and fields and forests of greenery-- these memories of the earth are at the true heart of the human spirit, which is deepest in us as we are humans. It is the freshwater aquarium that is capable of touching these memories, this part of our hearts.

 

[Bloo]

George you have shown fantastic examples of planted tanks of people who are actually memembers here on TFF. All of them massive inspiration to other less experienced planted tank members - myself included. And stunning photography. And that should be enough to entice who sees this thread to have a more indepth look into planted tanks

 

[oldwhitewood]

Indeed, Andy is correct bar his SW ravings A tank planted as indicated, not even mentioning all the high tech rubbish (I mean, why in the world would you want to spend hundreds of pounds on a light? A plant-friendly filter? Substrate that is not preffered by fish and you won't even see?), is incredibly limited as to what fish you can keep. You can't have any fish that might wreck the lovely aquascaping (ie, most things over mildly interesting), no fish that like to bury themselves, no fish that eat plants, no fish that don't 'go' with the plants (you're not exactly gonig to put a SA leaf fish in one of those, are you?). Pretty as they are, they aren't even that natural looking, they are too perfectly positioned, neat, tidy and all with almost exactly the same fish. And it seems to me it's almost a trip back to the roman ruins, fake castles etc- a lot of the newer tank aquascapes seem to me like they're trying to look more terrestrial than aquatic.

But anyway...
Nice tanks

Your view of planted tanks or 'Nature Aquariums' is interesting although I must say it's fairly typical for most fishkeepers out there. I think you need to accept the fact that we don't try to create totally natural looking tanks per se, for example a natural representation of the amazon, a true representation would simply be brown water, twigs and decomposing leaves, dimly lit with altums for a choice of fish or the cheaper alternative, cardinal tetras or similar! I must admit I was quite saddened when I saw you mention roman ruins, fake castles etc, I almost found it a little insulting to be honest, not just to me but to everyone else passionate about this side of the hobby. Believe me we couldn't be further from that! But I respect your viewpoint and I'd like to say a few things from my point of view.

While I admire the ability of any aquarist to keep fish in great condition and maintain their environment I must say the idea of keeping fish in a tank which wasn't a nature aquarium is beyond me. To explain, I think discus in their true form are some of the most beautiful fish out there, but the keeping them in a plain tank with a few brown leaved straggly amazon swords and some random pieces of bogwood to me is just wrong. As an enthusiast of this side of the hobby if I keep fish I want to show them off in the best possible way I can, so this for me naturally leads onto thoughtful aquascaping and plant choice, finding great pieces of wood and decorating these with ferns and mosses, and having the best possible equipment I can to display those things, ideally rimless, braceless tanks, minimal cabinets, natural lighting, glassware inside the tank and of course it must be open topped. Just these ideas alone on a very basic level don't appeal to the mass market out there right now, who are happy with say juwel tanks or similar but for me I'm so far removed from that way of thinking now I don't think I'd ever go back.

I dont want to sound smug here but I believe that people who don't follow this idea even on a basic level don't know what they're missing. Seriously! But there are drawbacks, the maintainence, technical knowledge involved as well as the expense (which easily rivals a reef tank set up using the berlin method) and of course the creative element are enought to put people off and I can totally understand this.

I must admit to me the plants and overall design and look of the tank is more important to me than the fish. I pretty much know which fish I can keep for a nature aquarium and which are unsuitable, so I have a choice of fish I can go for which I find interesting. To me the shrimp we keep and the ottocinclus (if we can get them) provide a lot of entertainment and interest. Regarding actual fish I'm a huge tetra fan and love to see a shoal, I think they compliment planted tanks wonderfully, but on the other end of the scale I love clown loaches, however accept I can't keep them in a planted tank as they grow too big, need to be in quite a large group and prefer a sandy substrate.

So what I'm saying is I hope that people are able to look past the fact that planted tanks have a limited fish choice and give this side of the hobby a try. With the articles George has been writing for PFK and the journals on planted tanks available, as well as a great deal of helpful and informative information out there I reckon we will be alright. Watch out you may just start to see Tropica Master Grow next to your Reef Crystals!

 

[RadaR]

Planted tanks kick butt, end of, hahaha. I had no idea some many people disliked the whole concept
I guess we know that theyre cool and thats all that matters

 

[andywg]

16 in 8 US gal. is fine. Small fish generally create less waste per inch. The plants in a heavily planted, high growth tank will provide more than enough oxygen.

Except of course that plants respire at night (absorb oxygen and put back CO2).

But an important thing to remember is that the dissolved O2 and CO2 levels are independant. Just because more CO2 is injected does not mean there is less O2. The lower O2 comes as a side effect of the lower surface agitation. Also the heavy planting will aid in preventing a nitrate build up (either by using the ammonia straight up, or by consuming the eventual nitrates) so a heavier stocking could be obtained.

I dont want to sound smug here but I believe that people who don't follow this idea even on a basic level don't know what they're missing

...

I must admit to me the plants and overall design and look of the tank is more important to me than the fish.

I have been there, done CO2 and dosed with ferts and I found little enjoyment in it. I far prefer my tanks with bogwood and larger fish. I also like the fact I have 3 tanks powered by one wet/dry filter. I could not do that if I wanted heavy planting.

The second part of the quote agrees with my first post. If you focus on the fish rather than the overall tank then you will tend not to end up with heavy planting. It is the same as Marine tanks, you tend to either get reefs with smaller, nicer fish; or FOWLR where one keeps the more predatory and (Arguably) more interesting fish such as frogfish, lionfish, sharks and groupers.

 

[oldwhitewood]

16 in 8 US gal. is fine. Small fish generally create less waste per inch. The plants in a heavily planted, high growth tank will provide more than enough oxygen.

Except of course that plants respire at night (absorb oxygen and put back CO2).

But an important thing to remember is that the dissolved O2 and CO2 levels are independant. Just because more CO2 is injected does not mean there is less O2. The lower O2 comes as a side effect of the lower surface agitation. Also the heavy planting will aid in preventing a nitrate build up (either by using the ammonia straight up, or by consuming the eventual nitrates) so a heavier stocking could be obtained.

I dont want to sound smug here but I believe that people who don't follow this idea even on a basic level don't know what they're missing

...

I must admit to me the plants and overall design and look of the tank is more important to me than the fish.

I have been there, done CO2 and dosed with ferts and I found little enjoyment in it. I far prefer my tanks with bogwood and larger fish. I also like the fact I have 3 tanks powered by one wet/dry filter. I could not do that if I wanted heavy planting.

The second part of the quote agrees with my first post. If you focus on the fish rather than the overall tank then you will tend not to end up with heavy planting. It is the same as Marine tanks, you tend to either get reefs with smaller, nicer fish; or FOWLR where one keeps the more predatory and (Arguably) more interesting fish such as frogfish, lionfish, sharks and groupers.

To me the tank and quality of the equipment is part of the mechanism which enables me to display the fish in their best light, I wouldn't have a planted tank without fish but I don't find larger fish at all interesting to me they just look like great big oafs swimming about. Sorry just pulling your leg.

I think you are somehow saying that if the tank is heavily planted then you see the fish less right? Very human way of looking at things!