Problem With New Aquarium

[mark4785]

I started to fill my new aquarium up yesterday with fresh dechlorinated tap water. As this is a new aquarium with no filter bacteria growth I transferred some established filter sponges from my pond filtration system to kick start the nitrogen cycle. As of yesterday the water was very clear but today it has become very misty. You can actually see the mist moving with the water as it exits from the filter outlet pipe. On top of this I have found that the fish are gasping at the surface and the Corydoras are constantly swimming up to gulp air.
 
Do new aquariums leech some sort of an oil or other substance that makes it hard for fish to breathe? Also, having been in the fishing hobby for 8 years I do know that it would take longer than 24 hours for ammonia to develop so I do not think that the mist is an algae bloom caused by excess ammonia. Ammonia should not even be an issue has this is a lightly stocked 260 litre aquarium containing plentiful filter bacteria taken from a koi pond.
 
I realise that a large water change is in order but I'd like to know the cause of this mist.

 
WHITE, CLOUDY WATER
POSSIBLE CAUSE: Bacterial bloom triggered by high levels of ammonia. Nitrifying bacteria that consume ammonia reproduce rapidly to the point that they are visible, creating what looks like clouds of swirling, white smoke. Adding too many fish at one time, overfeeding, overcleaning with chlorinated water, and the use of antibiotic medications are common triggers. If bacterial blooms occur without these triggers, it may indicate inadequate nitrifying bacteria or biological filtration.
RECOMMENDED SOLUTION: Use an air pump with airstones to introduce additional oxygen. The air bubbles help release toxic gasses from the water and the added oxygen helps nitrifying bacteria process the ammonia more efficiently. Use bacterial additives to replenish or re-establish beneficial bacteria depleted by medications or large water changes.

 
I did find the above explanation on a separate website which describes the issue I have, however ammonia is not a factor.

 

[mark4785]

3 neon tetras appear to have died from lack of oxygen. 

 

[Byron]

This is most likely a bacterial bloom.  The excerpt you posted is one cause, but not all, and rather misleading as it is not usually ammonia causing a bacterial bloom but the reverse may be the case.
 
When you filled the tank with dechlorinated water, you made it possible for various types of bacteria (other than the nitrifiers) to multiply in order to handle the organics.  We may think that tap water is "clean" but one thing that is usually present are organics, and often a lot.  The bacteria that feed on these rapidly appear and multiply (roughly 20 minutes, compared to hours for nitrifiers) and that is the cause of the cloudiness or hazy (I am assuming your term "mist" is this haze/cloudiness).
 
This on its own is usually not dangerous.  It may or may not create ammonia.  However, having added fish does increase this risk, and whenever fish are respirating faster than normal for the species, remaining lethargic, near the surface, gasping, etc, it is likely the case.  Major water changes of 2/3 to 3/4 of the tank at least once a day, preferably twice, will help the fish.  I would use a bacterial supplement like Tetra's Safe Start or Seachem's Stability.  These do help, I guarantee it.  If you have a test kit for ammonia, use it.  Nitrite will be next and is just as deadly.  Water changes as indicated until both read zedro for consecutive days should get the fish through this.
 
I am assuming the cycling will be involved, but again the bacterial bloom is distinct and may go on its own, but the problem respiration is serious whatever the cause.  This weakens fish considerably, and the internal detriment is usually permanent, even though the fish may survive.
 
Byron.

3 neon tetras appear to have died from lack of oxygen. 

 
This is most likely part of the previous explanation.  Howver, other things can cause respiration distress leading to fairly rapid death, from pH shock/fluctuation, GH/KH shock, TDS shock.  You used a dechlorinator so presumably it was not chlorine (symptoms would be very similar).  Any toxic substance in the water is another source.
 
I would increase water exchange, via filters, airstone, etc.  The more surface disturbance the better.

 

[mark4785]

 

3 neon tetras appear to have died from lack of oxygen. 

 
This is most likely part of the previous explanation.  Howver, other things can cause respiration distress leading to fairly rapid death, from pH shock/fluctuation, GH/KH shock, TDS shock.  You used a dechlorinator so presumably it was not chlorine (symptoms would be very similar).  Any toxic substance in the water is another source.
 
I would increase water exchange, via filters, airstone, etc.  The more surface disturbance the better.

 
 
I've placed an airstone in there (despite there already being a lot of surface movement) and will do a large water change. I've netted the remaining gasping tetras and put them back into a Juwel Lido 120. They now appear fine.
 
Do you think its a good idea to leave the Corydoras in the new aquarium given that they can come to the surface for their oxygen?

 

[Byron]

 

 


3 neon tetras appear to have died from lack of oxygen. 

 
This is most likely part of the previous explanation.  Howver, other things can cause respiration distress leading to fairly rapid death, from pH shock/fluctuation, GH/KH shock, TDS shock.  You used a dechlorinator so presumably it was not chlorine (symptoms would be very similar).  Any toxic substance in the water is another source.
 
I would increase water exchange, via filters, airstone, etc.  The more surface disturbance the better.

 
 
I've placed an airstone in there (despite there already being a lot of surface movement) and will do a large water change. I've netted the remaining gasping tetras and put them back into a Juwel Lido 120. They now appear fine.
 
Do you think its a good idea to leave the Corydoras in the new aquarium given that they can come to the surface for their oxygen?
 


 
No, if there is something in the new aquarium that is causing respiration problems.  And the tetras being moved and improving suggests there is.  Corys are highly sensitive fish; they will not survive water problems.  Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are all deadly to corys.
 
Are you able to test for ammonia?  I am thinking this is a cycling issue, but can't be certain.

 

[mark4785]

 
 
 
No, if there is something in the new aquarium that is causing respiration problems.  And the tetras being moved and improving suggests there is.  Corys are highly sensitive fish; they will not survive water problems.  Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are all deadly to corys.
 
Are you able to test for ammonia?  I am thinking this is a cycling issue, but can't be certain.
 

 
 
I've completed a 50% water change and introduced an air stone but the Corydoras are still repeatedly going up to the surface to gulp in oxygen from the air.
 
I've tested my aquarium water before the above WC using the API Master test kit and these are the results:
 
Ammonia: 0 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate: 5 ppm
pH: 6.6
 
The only parameter out of normal range is the pH as the pH of the tap water is always 7.6. This lower pH may reflect the lack of oxygen, could be the influence of the red moor wood or perhaps something else. When I open the aquarium hood I can smell the smell of rubber or something similar. I'm not sure I'd be happy to breathing this smell in 24/7.

 

[mark4785]

I have been watching the Cory's closely and it would seem that they are not surfacing as frequently now. I'm hoping that the haze will clear by itself; will it?

 

[StevenF]

 
 
I do know that it would take longer than 24 hours for ammonia to develop so I do not think that the mist is an algae bloom caused by excess ammonia. Ammonia should not even be an issue has this is a lightly stocked 260 litre aquarium containing plentiful filter bacteria taken from a koi pond.

It can take a lot less than 24 hours for ammonia to develop.  Fish excrete Urea.  Bacteria can under the right conditions convert urea to ammonia in minutes.  High heat and UV light can do it in seconds.  Based on what you have written it doesn't appear that you actually tested for ammonia in the water.  If you didn't test for it you don't know if it was present.  You just assumed it wasn't.  
 
It typically takes weeks for sufficient bacteria to develop in the tank to safely allow the introduction of fish. You only waited 24 hours.  New fish in an uncycled tank will quickly cause ammonia and cloudy water.   Most people that have been on this site for some time add bacteria and ammonia to an unstocked tank and wait for the tank to convert that to nitrates before fish are added.  Reed this http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/421488-cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first
 

 

 
 
Do new aquariums leech some sort of an oil or other substance that makes it hard for fish to breathe?

Ammonia damages blood and gills of fish that would make it hard to breath.  You fish were displaying the classic symptoms of Ammonia poisoning.  A washed glass or acrylic aquarium will not leach anything into the aquarium.  

 
I've placed an airstone in there (despite there already being a lot of surface movement) and will do a large water change. I've netted the remaining gasping tetras and put them back into a Juwel Lido 120. They now appear fine.
 
Do you think its a good idea to leave the Corydoras in the new aquarium given that they can come to the surface for their oxygen?

Remove all fish from the new tank and move them to the one with the tetras!

 

[mark4785]

 

 
 
I do know that it would take longer than 24 hours for ammonia to develop so I do not think that the mist is an algae bloom caused by excess ammonia. Ammonia should not even be an issue has this is a lightly stocked 260 litre aquarium containing plentiful filter bacteria taken from a koi pond.

It can take a lot less than 24 hours for ammonia to develop.  Fish excrete Urea.  Bacteria can under the right conditions convert urea to ammonia in minutes.  High heat and UV light can do it in seconds.  Based on what you have written it doesn't appear that you actually tested for ammonia in the water.  If you didn't test for it you don't know if it was present.  
 

 
 
I tested for total ammonia on top of nitrite, nitrate and pH. You can see the results above.
 
I did not perform any water tests before today as yesterday was the day I added fresh dechlorinated tap water which has never comprised detectable levels of ammonia or nitrite and has never caused any issues for me during water changes on my older tanks and my pond.

 
 
It typically takes weeks for sufficient bacteria to develop in the tank to safely allow the introduction of fish. You only waited 24 hours.  New fish in an uncycled tank will quickly cause ammonia and cloudy water.   Most people that have been on this site for some time add bacteria and ammonia to an unstocked tank and wait for the tank to convert that to nitrates before fish are added.  Reed this http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/421488-cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first

 
 
The ammonia and nitrite-consuming bacteria are already present as I have moved a 5 year old pond filter sponge into the the aquarium filtration system. I did explain this in my first post.
 
The fish didn't cause ammonia as there isn't any ammonia in the water.
 
A fishless cycle, if one is to be completed, takes months not weeks. I'm not performing a fishless cycle since I have established filter media in use.

 

[StevenF]

 
 
 
The ammonia and nitrite-consuming bacteria are already present as I have moved a 5 year old pond filter sponge into the the aquarium filtration system. I did explain this in my first post.

In an established aquarium the bacteria are not only in the filter they coat the glass, gravel, and everything else.  The rate the bacteria can process urea, ammonia, and nitrite is dependent on the surface area of the biofilm.  you new tank initially only had the sponge in the filter and no bacteria anywhere else. It had a very limited surface area.  You had a very limited amount of bacteria in the tank when you put the fish in.  You didn't put many in and yes that would be considered a lightly stocked Established thank.  Your tank was not established.  
 
you put the fish in and the few bacteria you had quickly started feeding on urea, Creating ammonia.  Within a hour they then  then started converting the ammonia to nitrite, and then nitrate.  The filter was now overloaded with bacteria and spread that all over the aquarium.  The surface area of the bacterial film went from very small to very large quickly. The bacterial growth and  ammonia and nitrite production then went exponential creating the cloudy water you saw in the morning. The ammonia and nitrite spike may have been massive. by the time you tested the water the bacteria may have already consumed all the ammonia and nitrite.  giving your good readings you posted today.  Your tank may have already completed its cycle.  It is unusual for it to happen that fast but it can happen.  
 
Next time take it slower and test the tank with a small  amount of ammonia before adding the fish  Only when verify ammonia and nitrite have been processed can you be sure the tank is ready.  Just adding bacteria to the filter is not enough to insure the tank is read.  Take it slow and don't rush this. Taking it slow is what a responsible fish owner should do.
 
You should always wash a new aquarium, new filter, and new heater before filling a new tank.  As I stated earlier a washed and cleaned glass or plastic tank will not leach anything into the water.  However the gravel and any decorations may have leached minerals such as carbonate elevating KH and possibly causing KH, GH or TDS levels to be toxic to fish.  Did you test for TDS, or GH, KH today?  if not verify those levels are safe before going further.  If the substrate or a rock  is releasing material it might take a lot of water cycles and weeks to get it down and it still might be elevated.   A KH, GH, TDS issue is a slower issue that can take quite some time to clear up unlike an ammonia spike that can be very short and intense.

 

[Byron]

I concur with Steven's posts.  This may well have been a cycling issue (ammonia, then nitrite), or something toxic (the "rubber smell" is something I cannot explain).
 
Corys regularly (though not always) breech the surface for a gulp of air.  They have the ability for blood vessels in the intestines to extract oxygen from swallowed air.  Excessive surface breeching is a cause for concern and immediate action.
 
As for the pH...while this in itself (a pH in the mid 6's) is not an issue for the corys, a sudden change from 7.6 to 6.6 would be a shock to the fish.  A gradual lowering over days would not (depending upon species).  The surface gasping and such is not just a lack of oxygen, it can be other things with oxygen at good levels.  However, we should explore this pH issue.
 
What is the GH (general or total hardness) and KH (carbonate hardness or Alkalinity) and pH of the source water, presumably tap?  These values you should be able to get from the water authority if you are on municipal water, check for their website or contact them directly.  The GH/KH are part of the chemistry and affect the pH so we need to know these values before working out what may be occurring with the pH.  If you test tap water for pH, you must out-gas the CO2 or the reading may be inaccurate.  Water sitting for 24 hours, or after being very briskly agitated for several minutes, should have the CO2 out-gassed.
 
Byron.

 

[mark4785]

You should always wash a new aquarium, new filter, and new heater before filling a new tank.  As I stated earlier a washed and cleaned glass or plastic tank will not leach anything into the water.  However the gravel and any decorations may have leached minerals such as carbonate elevating KH and possibly causing KH, GH or TDS levels to be toxic to fish.  Did you test for TDS, or GH, KH today?  if not verify those levels are safe before going further.  If the substrate or a rock  is releasing material it might take a lot of water cycles and weeks to get it down and it still might be elevated.   A KH, GH, TDS issue is a slower issue that can take quite some time to clear up unlike an ammonia spike that can be very short and intense.
 

 
 
The aquarium has no gravel (it is intended to be a bare-bottom Discus aquarium). As for decoration, there is red moor in there that was thoroughly washed in tap water before it was added. KH is at 4 dH and GH is at 5 dH for the tank water according to my API KH and GH testing kit; these levels are in line with the tap water KH and GH levels.TDS has never been an issue with my tap water.
 
I personally don't think there has been any ammonia elevation since the fish have not showed any flicking, rubbing or irritation and they are eating food. The whole point of lightly stocking the aquarium, feeding lightly and seeding the filtration unit was that there would be no ammonia fluctuation. I've placed my pond's Seneye reading unit into this aquarium so that the water is constantly monitored just in case there is ammonia production.
 
With regards to the Corydoras they are eating and are no longer surfacing. There is still a dense mist in the water column.

 

[Byron]

We are getting more useful data now.
 
Fish having difficulty respirating can be due to several problems, ammonia being just one, whether or not there are other symptoms evident.  My first action whenever I see increased respiration that is not clearly due to some normal function like eating or increased physical activity, is to do a major water change, 70-75% of the tank volume, using just a good conditioner.  Then try to track down the specific issue.
 
The lack of a substrate is a problem.  I know some people advocate this, but it is not healthy, and the fish will be stressed solely from the reflective glass as well.  A layer of sand allows the various bacteria to colonize, and this is in fact the single most important area for bacteria, both aerobic and anaerobic, nitrifying, denitrifying, decomposition, etc.  This is likely part of the present cloudiness.
 
To the pH.  The GH and KH are both relatively low, so expect the pH to lower naturally.  So there is not issue here, long-term.
 
The haze/cloudiness/mist is almost certainly a bacterial bloom.  This in itself is normal in new set-ups; I have seen it last a few days to several weeks.  Every system is biologically different.  On its own it is not a problem for fish, but it can easily be part of a different problem that could be.  But this brings me to the decor, what is a red moor?  "Moor" is a type of goldfish, and I assume this is not that. lol.
 
Byron.

 

[mark4785]

We are getting more useful data now.
 
Fish having difficulty respirating can be due to several problems, ammonia being just one, whether or not there are other symptoms evident.  My first action whenever I see increased respiration that is not clearly due to some normal function like eating or increased physical activity, is to do a major water change, 70-75% of the tank volume, using just a good conditioner.  Then try to track down the specific issue.
 
The lack of a substrate is a problem.  I know some people advocate this, but it is not healthy, and the fish will be stressed solely from the reflective glass as well.  A layer of sand allows the various bacteria to colonize, and this is in fact the single most important area for bacteria, both aerobic and anaerobic, nitrifying, denitrifying, decomposition, etc.  This is likely part of the present cloudiness.
 
To the pH.  The GH and KH are both relatively low, so expect the pH to lower naturally.  So there is not issue here, long-term.
 
The haze/cloudiness/mist is almost certainly a bacterial bloom.  This in itself is normal in new set-ups; I have seen it last a few days to several weeks.  Every system is biologically different.  On its own it is not a problem for fish, but it can easily be part of a different problem that could be.  But this brings me to the decor, what is a red moor?  "Moor" is a type of goldfish, and I assume this is not that. lol.
 
Byron.

 
 
The fish seem a lot happier now. Theres virtually no surfacing. They have all situated themselves near the air stone but this could be just coincidence since their respiration rate isn't above what you would expect for a healthy fish.
 
I realise the absence of substrate is an issue due to the fact that this is the location where some of the nitrifying bacteria would take hold. My reason for not putting any substrate in is because I currently have a separate aquarium containing a pigeon blood discus and it is unable to distinguish food on the substrate. I've had to put some grey rectangular slates down just so it can see its food. My concern was that if I place it in a new aquarium with additional discus it will have to compete for food AND it will probably not be able to discern it on the substrate. If I can find a substrate that won't cause this issue for the discus then I'd be happy to introduce it into the aquarium. The current substrate I use in my established discus tank is natural sand.
 
Red moor is basically a type of natural wood that you can add to an aquarium. It differs from bog wood in that it resembles a series of twisting branches. You can see an example of a Red Moor piece here: http/www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RED-MOOR-AQUARIUM-WOOD-ROOT-SIZE-XL-IWAGUMI-AQUASCAPING-BOGWOOD-DRIFTWOOD-/172214643075 . Note: I bought the Red Moor from a reputable aquatic shop and it was washed before introduction. The piece I have is about 80cm in length, 40cm in depth and 45cm in height. As far as I know, Red Moor and Bog Wood cause the pH to drop slowly and can release tannins into the water. There is no sign of tannins yet and I certainly haven't associated a white haze with this sort of wood.

 

[Byron]

Red moor is basically a type of natural wood that you can add to an aquarium. It differs from bog wood in that it resembles a series of twisting branches. You can see an example of a Red Moor piece here: http/www.ebay.co.u...D-/172214643075 . Note: I bought the Red Moor from a reputable aquatic shop and it was washed before introduction. The piece I have is about 80cm in length, 40cm in depth and 45cm in height. As far as I know, Red Moor and Bog Wood cause the pH to drop slowly and can release tannins into the water. There is no sign of tannins yet and I certainly haven't associated a white haze with this sort of wood.
 

 
It pays to have the facts.  This wood may be the issue.  Wood may contain various pathogens, fungi, etc., that sometimes take a while to leech out, or it may be immediate.  The tannins are harmless.  Some types of fungus (whitish tufts, slimy patches, etc) may be harmless or deadly toxic.  I don't know this particular wood, but you might want to remove it and see if things improve.  I will explain my experience a couple of years back.
 
I bought a piece of similar branching wood, though it was thicker.  I can't remember what name it was sold under, if any, but subsequently I considered it might have been grapewood (which is known for toxins).  It was the beige colour with darker areas.  I washed it and placed it in a 90g tank (which had been running fine for several years); by the end of the day, the water was quite cloudy, and the fish were having considerable difficulty respirating.  There were several patches of white fungus on the wood, so I took it out and did a 75% water change.  Fish returned to normal, cloudiness gone.  I put the wood in another tank and same thing happened.  Wood is now a decoration in the hallway, well out of fish tanks.  The week following I happened to be in a store and heard a customer recounting similar things and he had dead corys.  I explained it was likely the wood.
 
If you have fish in the tank with this wood, and they are near an airstone, I suspect this is possibly the issue.  Remove the wood, do a major water change, and see what happens.  This would also explain why tetras moved to the other tank recovered so fast.
 
Byron.