Probably Hole In The Head Disease - Need Some Help Please

Brette

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Hi, i have a nice little german ram with some white spots developing over time (weeks) on his head. (head only, this is not ich) I believe they are the start of holes. I have a read a bit about hole in the head disease but the suggested remedies seem to be all over the map, ranging from flagyl to vitamin c.

I have flagyl pills that i used for my dog when he was ill. I wonder if i could use those to cure my fish somehow.

Does anyone have any advice?
 
can you let us know where in the world you are? the meds for HITH are quite tricky to get hold of in some countries so that'll help us work out what's best for you to do.

don't know about the dog pills, will find you a bit on HITH though in 2 secs.....

here's some helpful info from Tolak, he;s an angelfish breeder so has significant experience with HITH, I know this talks specifically about angels but the treatment is the same.

I have dealt with many cases of Hexamita or Spironucleus in angels. Without a microscope & the ability to stain some slides it is impossible to guess which it is, but the treatment is the same.

These internal protizoans have been implicated in HITH, though with angels the pitting rarely gets a chance to manifest. The fish show symptoms of hiding, lack of appetite, and stringy mucosy feces. If none of these are apparent it is very doubtful that it is HITH.

A 3 day treatment with metronidazole, or dimetronidazole which mat be more available in the UK, is a good start on what should be a 10-14 day treatment. I have been using metro to treat angels with internal protizoans for years, this is sort of thing that pops up on occasion when dealing with a larger volume of fish. This protizoan is a common part of the fish's digestive floura, but if the fish is stressed it can get out of hand. Stress lowers a fish's immune response, this is similar to a human letting themself get run down, which lowers the immune response. You are then more suspect to catching a cold or other ailment.

Anyhow, if you like, here is my usual cut & paste that I have been tacking up here for years on treating angels for internal protizoans. I may be wrong, and it may be HITH caused by internal protizoans, but in many years with easily ten thousand angels going through my setup I have yet to see it manifest those symptoms shown in your pictures.

Put the angel in a quar tank, I usually use a 10 gallon. Increase the temp over a day or so to 90-94F. Treat daily with 40 mg/gallon metronidazole, with 50% water changes daily. If the fish isn't eating, don't feed for the first 3 days. After 3 days, get some frozen brine shrimp. Take a portion about the size of a few match heads, and sprinkle on some metro. You have to eyeball this one, make the shrimp look kind of like a tiny powdered donut. Once it thaws, mix it in & feed. Sometimes they still don't eat for a few days, but once they start to mouth the food & spit it out, the meds seem to get in their system real good. Continue medicating the water & food for 7-10 days.

Metronidazole is sold as flagyl, het-a-mit, and a few other names I can't recall offhand, used to treat hexamita & hole in the head. They usually suggest 20mg/gallon, this often isn't enough. Metro deteriorates in 8 hours, so you could do twice daily water changes. I've done this on the weekends when I have time.

I've also added epsom salt while using metro, this helps with any constipation issues, cleans out the digestive tract. I start with 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons of water, increasing by 1 teaspoon daily for 2 more days to bring it up to 3 teaspoons per 10 gallons. You will have to adjust how much you use when doing water changes. You may want to give this a try.

Now, for HITH carbon has been implicated, as well as poor water conditions & a poor diet. This is more often seen in larger cichlids, oscars in particular. The aquarist does not maintain the aquarium properly, and feeds a poor diet, usually feeders purchased from their lfs. The best way to treat a case of HITH is not metro, but immaculate water conditions, along with a vitamin enriched pellet. A high quality pellet soaked in a liquid human vitamin, such as liquid Centrum, is the best diet to feed.
 
can you let us know where in the world you are? the meds for HITH are quite tricky to get hold of in some countries so that'll help us work out what's best for you to do.

don't know about the dog pills, will find you a bit on HITH though in 2 secs.....


I'm in canada. I should have ellaborated, flagyl is metronizadole, which is supposed to cure this. I have some leftover from when my dog was sick. I've read I can dissolve the tablet in the water but wanted to know if anyone else had any success with treating this. Luckily it is in the early stages but he is definetely getting a few more spots.

Thank you Miss Wiggle!
 
Hi Brette
what are your water stats and what are you feeding? both poor water quality and poor diet can contribute to HITH
 
don't know about canada bu flagyl is pretty widley available in the USA, I assume it's the same but not desperately sure.

I personally would not take the risk with the dog meds unless no other choice was available, while it may be the same active ingredient you just don't know what else is in there that may affect the fish.

So I would try to hunt it down through the usual channels, if it's not found then maybe consider the dogs flagyl.

IME sparkling clean water is v important in treatment of HITH so get some daily water changes on the go to make sure everything's tip top. What are your water stats at the moment?
 
What are your water stats at the moment?


water stats are wonderful right now, which is why I'm surprised he has this. 0 readings on everything. I don't know if you remember this but a few months back i had an outbreak of columnaris in my tank and the fish went through hell. the ram came out of fine but perhaps that is what has weakened his system.

I wonder if anyone can recommend something from big Al's online (they deliver in canada) for me to try before i go with the metronizadole that i have currently in tablet form.

Thanks for the research Miss Wiggle, going to read that now. Hmm looks like I should consider fish vitamins as well!
 

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